HTMLised Transcript of 2007 Jan 13 Meeting

Submitted by Butch on Mon, 2007-01-15 18:25

Out of Cavern

1:	Butch:	Well, my clock says noon, so I'll get started.
2:	Dr. August:	I don't support carjacking vehicles. But if you think about it, hotwiring can be a useful or lifesaving skill.
3:	amonre claps his hands
4:	Kiteerah claps her hands
5:	Skellington98 claps his hands
6:	Butch:	I would like to thank everyone for coming to this informal gathering
7:	Vortmax cheers
8:	Thend:	So you've mentioned Doctor lol
9:	Dr. August claps his hands
10:	Thend claps his hands
11:	Relentless claps his hands
12:	Butch:	So everyone knows, I am running a chatlog, and plan to post it after we are done.
13:	Nis'ah claps her hands
14:	ireenquench:	great, I looove logs cough
15:	Thend:	lol
16:	Butch:	This meeting came out of a post I made on DRCsite
17:	Butch:	So, let's start with the introductions.
18:	Butch:	Try to follow my lead.
19:	Butch:	I'm Butch, I started just after UU opened and I am not affiliated with any group in the cavern
20:	Butch:	Kiteerah, please
21:	Kiteerah:	I'm Kiteerah I started during Prologue and I am not affiliated with any group
22:	Butch:	Go next. I"m just going to walk down my age list and ask eveyone to introduce
23:	Butch:	Dr. August
24:	Dr. August:	My name is Ashley August. I have been in the cavern only a few days...but it is my home now.
25:	Butch:	Nis'ah
26:	Nis'ah:	I'm Nisah and I started during Prolog and I'm not affiliated with any group or organization
27:	Butch:	ireenquench
28:	ireenquench:	I preferto be called ireen, I have been in Uruand UU since prologue, I have worked with several groups, but only speak for myself.
29:	Butch:	amonre
30:	amonre:	I'm amonre, and I run Myst Blogs, UruVote, and the DRCL elections, kind-of
31:	Butch:	Ward
32:	tkwiggins:	Shorah all
33:	Butch:	Ward, do you want to introduce yourself?
34:	barker57:	hi all
35:	Ward:	I'm Ward Edema. I'm the Reporter of Ward's D'ni Newsletter.
36:	Butch:	Relentless
37:	Relentless:	I'm relentless, came to the cavern about 6months ago in UU, affilitated with UEF but speak for my self
38:	weeKIly Reporter:	pff
39:	Butch:	Mingo
40:	Migo:	My name is Migo, I am member of the UO hood, and represent myself
41:	Butch:	Thend
42:	Thend:	I.. am Thend. Have been here and there since Prologue and I've rubbed shoulders with groups during my stay, but am not officially affiliated
43:	Butch:	Vortmax
44:	ireenquench would like to remind everyone to step closely into the chat bubble and please all use /shout
45:	Vortmax:	Hey, I'm Vort. Been around since old Prologue (wht a break for some of UU). DRC Liaisons, UO 'hood member
46:	Vortmax:	*with
47:	Butch:	Skellington98
48:	Skellington98:	I'm Skellington98, was Greg in UU, and am only affiliated with the Up on the Roof! party hosts, but my opinon only reflects my own.
49:	Butch:	Whilyam
50:	Professor Askew waves
51:	Mystlander hugs Professor Askew
52:	Whilyam:	Whilyam. August 2005. No affiliation.
53:	Hitana:	I'm Hitana, have ever been Hitana since UU
54:	Butch:	barker57
55:	barker57:	hi all
56:	Gilgameesh:	shora all
57:	Butch:	Robert The Rebuilder
58:	Robert The Rebuilder:	Robert T. Rebuilder, May 2005, Guild of Age Builders, here with my restless 4-yr old son
59:	Butch:	Dovahn
60:	MeKtonUru:	:sit
61:	Dovahn:	I am Dovahn and I came in to the cavern during UU, but am still getting aquainted with everyone. I haven't officialy affiliated yet.
62:	Butch:	jimmyleg
63:	jimmyleg:	in prolog - currently in The Meeting Place - loose affiliations - glad to be back
64:	Butch:	sundog
65:	sundog:	My name is sundog an explorer since the closed beta , no affiliation
66:	Hitana:	some know me as a wirter
67:	Dave Mac:	Are we waiting for something to happen?
68:	Butch:	Mystlander
69:	Skellington98:	Brb
70:	Butch:	Professor Askew
71:	Vortmax:	Dave, we're doing introductions
72:	Dave Mac:	OK.
73:	Mystlander:	Sorry... LAG
74:	Professor Askew:	Hi, all. Professor Askew. Interim liaison...maybe lol Great Tree Hood.
75:	Butch:	Gadren
76:	Gadren:	Hi, I'm Gadren -- been around since Prologue, recent Great Tree member, and, for now at least, Liaison
77:	amonre:	no interim liaison, at least not yet.
78:	Butch:	pirschen43
79:	Hitana:	I'm a member of the uru obsession hood now
80:	pirschen43:	I'm pirschen43, was in the beta in summer 03, wasn't in prologue or UU, no affiliations
81:	Hitana:	and i don't know what this affiliation thing means lol
82:	Butch:	twiggins
83:	Hitana blushes
84:	Vortmax:	Basically, are you connected to any groups, Hitana
85:	tkwiggins:	Prologue end of '03, UU Aug. '04. No affiliations.
86:	Mystlander:	I'm Mystlander (Mysty), in Prolouge, UU, UU:TOPTS, and now MOUL sinde November 2003. Member of The Great Tree.
87:	Thend:	Affiliation as in what groups you are a part of or see yourself to represent
88:	Butch:	Dave Mac
89:	Hitana:	so i have one vort?
90:	Dave Mac:	I'm Dave. I'm pretty new (about a month in the cavern). I'm a member of UO hood.
91:	Butch:	Ghaelen D'Lareh
92:	Annie:	How do you become affiated?
93:	From Ward:	Hey, Btch. What are you doing man? Are you from Cyan or Gametap? This is sutch stupid!
94:	Vortmax:	Annie, it's really about how you consider yourself. Do you feel like part of a group, or an independant player?
95:	To Ward:	I'm just an Explorer, it's an open communty meeting
96:	amonre:	It means that you think the DRC is right, or Yeesha is right, etc... being affiliated is just what you think
97:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	I am involved with CavernCommunications Network, the Shortwave, and other audio/video programs. INdependent and cooperative
98:	Hitana:	i feel like a part of ---everything lol
99:	Butch:	Device
100:	Device:	Im Device, I was in Prologue and in D'mala; no affiliations
101:	Butch:	J'iim
102:	Bear (I'm on the surface, be back in a minute):
103:	Vortmax:	Works for me, Hitana
104:	Annie:	Oh, this is deeper than I thought. Does it mean belonging to a particular Bevin?
105:	Hitana:	k
106:	Hitana:	thx ireen and vort
107:	Thend:	Not necessaarily Annie, only who you feel you may represent
108:	Butch:	Rima
109:	Hitana:	so, why do we meet here?
110:	ireenquench:	or if you feel attatched to a certain grup of people
111:	Annie:	If I wanted to join a Bevin, how would I do it?
112:	Butch:	The list is scrolling faster than I can keep up with is, so anyone I missed I'll give a few mintues to introduce your selves. Sorry
113:	Luke (I'm on the surface, be back in a minute):
114:	Butch:	I'll add that to lessions learned.
115:	Professor Askew:	heh
116:	Butch:	Now on to the next section.
117:	Hitana:	btw hello butch!
118:	weeKIly Reporter:	Hello WeeKIly Reporter here, I'm a Reporter for "The WeeKIly" KI-Newsletter
119:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	wait a minute, Butch
120:	Butch:	I'm waiting.
121:	Ruby O'Degee:	I am Ruby O'Degee, and I am here for Cavern Communications Network. Lakewater Indy Productions
122:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	ok, just another minute or two
123:	Vortmax:	Anyone else want to introduce themselves?
124:	Gilgameesh:	Gilgameesh, aka Gilga'meesh for the entire Prologue. Myst fan member of the Italian D'ni Explorers, now Italian Bevin. few months in UU
125:	Annie:	Thanks!
126:	Hitana:	oh, and i'm german
127:	Skellington98 does a lagdance
128:	Butch:	The format for most of this meeting will be the facilitator (me) will post a question to the group, and then get out of the way. I believe we have about 10 minutes for open conversation on that question.
129:	Butch:	At about 10 minutes, I will call time and post the next question
130:	Butch:	There is no format for what happens in that 10 minutes.
131:	Butch:	I would like everyone to just talk about the topic
132:	Whilyam:	Do we go onstage or from here.
133:	Vortmax:	Whil: I'd say from here. Just for the sake of logistics.
134:	Gadren:	From here would be easier
135:	Butch:	From the floor would be best, to give everyone the most time.
136:	Whilyam:	Good.
137:	Butch:	Is everyone ready
138:	Migo:	yes
139:	Hitana:	yes
140:	Butch:	First section is on general MO:UL community
141:	Vortmax nods his head
142:	amonre nods his head
143:	Gilgameesh:	yes
144:	Mystlander:	Affirmative
145:	Skellington98:	ok
146:	Dovahn:	Darn, I have to go now.
147:	Dr. August:	I'll speak to you later, Dovahn.
148:	Skellington98:	Bye Dovahn
149:	Butch:	What kind of organization should the Explorers pursue inside the Cavern?
150:	Hitana:	bye dovahn
151:	Butch:	You have 10 minutes
152:	Vortmax:	Ah, now isn't that the $64,000 question?
153:	Dovahn:	Shorah, all.
154:	Hitana:	lol
155:	Dr. August:	I think it should be a union.
156:	Gilgameesh:	shora Dovahn
157:	Migo:	Pursue what gives you joy
158:	Hitana:	what kind of organization do you think of?
159:	Dave Mac:	Is there really a need for such formal organization?
160:	Whilyam:	Gather with who you like. Avoid those you don't.
161:	Vortmax:	Whatever it is, it has to be representative of everyone who wants to be involved.
162:	Thend:	It would seem 'Why' is an integral question here
163:	Hitana:	of course
164:	Dr. August:	So that we have a unified voice.
165:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	I don't think one explorer can impose any kind of organization on another, IMO
166:	Gilgameesh:	i don't think a one big org can be useful, people tend to stick with friends
167:	Dave Mac:	I'll drink to that, Thend.
168:	Whilyam:	No explorer organization is needed. Nor would it be best as it appears few can decide on one thing.
169:	Thend:	No, Ghaelen, it would have to be communal
170:	Gilgameesh:	but a sort of cooperation between orgs would be natural
171:	Hitana:	indeed gilgameesh!
172:	Butch:	My view is that we have always followed an organization of trust, consensus and respect
173:	Gadren:	I ahve to agree with Dave Mac -- in the past, I've found that structured organizations lead to bureaucracy and things aren't as efficient -- or fun -- as if there's a more free market amorphous system set up
174:	Skellington98:	i agree with Whilyam
175:	Dave Mac:	It's just one more way to separate people. We shouldn't be doing that.
176:	jimmyleg:	TMG bevin's charter is without specific affiliation - i like that
177:	Vortmax:	The "why" in my mind is that if we have a larger, more unified voice, it'll be harder for the DRC and Cate to ignore us.
178:	Dr. August:	Perhaps every different opinion should have a union. Like pro-DRC, anti-DRC, pro-Yeesha...
179:	Hitana:	lol vort
180:	Whilyam:	The sad fact is that explorers cannot be made into one organization.
181:	Vortmax:	It would have to be open to EVERYONE though, regardless of any affiliations.
182:	ireenquench:	I think the explorers should organize themselves as they please ... but should not expect representation with Cyan.... sonce that is an impossible goal to handle in a fair and just manner, concerning groups or indiviuals.... OOCly, we are all equal as paying customers... everythign else is just play... and should have no consequneces in game
183:	Thend:	the casual manner of Uru/the explorers seems to go in an opposite direction to this proposal
184:	Skellington98:	and Butch on that too
185:	Gadren:	My experience as a Liaison has showed me that it's futile to try and have one organization to try and speak for everyone -- or to have an organization which everything thinks is supposed to speak for everyone
186:	Dave Mac:	A large group will just need leaders, and that will be one more derisive drama for everyone to deal with.
187:	Kiteerah:	No we can't be ONE organization, but that could be what the DRCL's are for, our representatives meet with them
188:	Gilgameesh:	i agree, Gadren
189:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	I don't think any explorer has the right to impose their idea on another, either. So, why the need to attempt organization?
190:	Vortmax:	That's the down aide. The Community has a long-standing tradition of breaking into factions and arguing. I want to see that stop, and I'd hope this is a way to do it.
191:	Vortmax:	*side
192:	Butch:	The DRCL are a topic later in the meeting.
193:	sundog:	Why not bring back or re-introduce the guild system ?
194:	Thend:	A Hood might be possible, it's casual but can have a larger organizational property if necessary
195:	Hitana:	lol
196:	Migo:	By defaull, We are already, THE explorers
197:	Gadren:	OOC I tihnk that if a guild system starts, it needs to be started by Cyan/DRC
198:	jimmyleg:	i agree, thend
199:	Ruby O'Degee:	But democracy is messy Vortmax
200:	Dr. August:	I think that's on the DRC's checklist...but who knhows when that will get done.
201:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	Guilds are by their nature exclusionary. Is that what our community is about?
202:	Vortmax:	We do know Cyan wants to bring back the guilds. That might be something we could start now.
203:	Thend:	migo, as said, we don't have ONE voice though as explorers
204:	ireenquench isnt sure if we are still blurbing about Butchs first question and would like BUtch to repeat it
205:	Sifr:	I think that factions are inevitable, if you try to stamp them out, isn't that technically facism?
206:	sundog:	or common intersts ?
207:	Gadren:	Well, specialization has its advantages...it's what allows for civilization
208:	Butch:	The first question is: What kind of organization should Explorers pursue
209:	Gilgameesh:	from the experience in other mmo games, i think orgs are useful if related to the story, to play grouped we just need a sort of teaming, unrelated with guilds
210:	sundog:	and cultural growth
211:	Butch:	About 5 more minutes
212:	Dr. August:	Yes. Like-minded individuals should gather and decide what is best for them.
213:	Dave Mac:	I think the we are blurbing about an assumption within Butch's question.
214:	Migo:	If you want ONE voice...you need to define, for What
215:	Thend:	Yes
216:	Ruby O'Degee:	i have no issue with guilds, but a guild to manage guilds is not going to work
217:	Ghaelen D'Lareh likes to use her OWN voice
218:	Hitana:	if there really has to be one, what possibilities do we have?
219:	Device:	Do Explorers NEED to pursue an organization though? No need to pressure people to do these things
220:	Vortmax:	Should we decide on a system, I like something more representative. People who are willing and able to speak for us on various things.
221:	Migo:	organized to represent ourselves to DRC, Cyan?
222:	Gilgameesh:	the people must be free to play as they feel
223:	tkwiggins:	I kinda doubt any general, all-inclusive explorers' organization would be stable for long. Organizations are created to achieve common goals, accomplish common tasks -- it seems that definition of such goals would need to come first, and and organization then created to achieve them.
224:	Thend:	One voice in the hub-bub may not be enough in certain situations Ghaelen, hence this meting
225:	Vortmax:	Migo, to the DRC mostly
226:	pirschen43:	Just keep in mind that the majority of explorers (OOC the casual players that MOUL will need to stay alive) will never have the time or interest to pursue being in an organization
227:	Dave Mac:	I think organizations in this sort of game really turn off new people (like me).
228:	Ward:	He, anyone wants a drink? He, he!
229:	Whilyam:	I think the Liaisons do a good enough job at being a voice with the DRC
230:	Thend nods his head
231:	ireenquench:	I like my own voice and everybody elses own voice and i think everybody can organize themselves as they see fit and want to play... but not be "rewarded" by the game, Cyan should treat everybody equally as paying customers.
232:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	Thend, I wasn't talking about using my voice for anyone else but me, but only for myself
233:	Sifr:	i agree with Dave, new players won't like being bossed around and made to join something
234:	Vortmax:	and it's important to note that nobody would be forced into this. This is just something which would be there for those who want it.
235:	Migo:	I agree ireen
236:	jimmyleg:	i agree, whily, liaisons are necessary
237:	Hitana:	organization is kind of spitting for me, to be honest
238:	Butch:	3 more mintues on the question of What kind of organization should explorers pursue in the cavern
239:	Gadren:	Perhaps the best thing would be how people have already started smaller groups for serving specific needs... there's UO with their news updates, TCT with their podcasts, a D'ni artistic group, a D'ni linguists foundation...
240:	ireenquench:	we arent taling about the DRCLs yet are we? this is general
241:	amonre:	well... you are you... you are not an organisation
242:	Hitana:	lol amon
243:	tkwiggins:	I agree with Gad on that
244:	Thend:	yes, Ghaelen, but the impact individual voices versus a unified one, that's the difference
245:	Whilyam:	People should join whatever group they choose. Organizing as they choose. No Explorer Union or anything like that.
246:	jimmyleg:	but hoods have always played a large part of development
247:	ireenquench:	and people should be able to participate in more than one group
248:	Dave Mac:	I think the DRCLs are fine, but we all see how much friggin drama it has caused. Can you imagine the impact of a larger group like a union with union leaders? Oy vey!
249:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	I don't quite follow you, Thend... are you saying individual voices are better? worse?
250:	Migo:	It grows with time, our voices gather to various interests, people form groups for that if they wish
251:	Butch:	2 more mintues on the question of What kind of organization should Explorers pursue in the Cavern.
252:	Thend:	If there was a purpose that concerned and activated many, then folks may rally around it
253:	Skellington98 wants dual hood residence
254:	Vortmax:	So Whil, basically just join whichever group suits you, and then work with that group to become a larger voice?
255:	Whilyam:	We need to end the Liaison drama..
256:	Nalates:	Unless there is some unifying problem I doubt we will cooperate.
257:	Dr. August:	According to Cate, DRC affiliate, DRCLs maybe be elminiated...
258:	Dave Mac:	Amen, Whil.
259:	Hitana:	they organize themselves in their litte groups, thats all we need
260:	Gadren:	let's talk about the liaisons later, ok?
261:	ireenquench:	we can never be unified, because ou interests and views are different
262:	Ward:	-wave
263:	Thend:	Ghalen, depends on the situation, that's all
264:	Butch:	DRCL are a later topic
265:	Ward waves
266:	Whilyam:	Of course. They tie into organization however
267:	Skellington98:	how muuch time left on this topic?
268:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	oh, I see. I agree with that
269:	Dr. August:	But we have SOME common interests.
270:	Sifr:	the problem is we're assuming without an organisation we're in anarchy... are we at the moment?
271:	Butch:	1 minute on the question of what kind of organization should Exploers pursue in the Cavern
272:	Dr. August:	We're in dictatorship right now.
273:	Hitana:	okay i think butch wants an answeer on this...
274:	Gilgameesh:	this will transform the game in a 'elite only' game.....
275:	Hitana:	lol
276:	Dave Mac:	I still haven't heard a convincing answer to the WHY question.
277:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	How so, Dr. August?
278:	ireenquench:	wanting to be here, thats about our only common interest abd opinion
279:	Whilyam:	My answer: No official organization. Let people do what they want.
280:	Thend:	So, commonality, then, may be the thing, the issue, not making arbitrary alliances
281:	Butch:	TIME
282:	Kiteerah:	I think representatives from each group should meet together occassionally to discuss various concerns
283:	Butch:	The first question is closed.
284:	Sifr takes his hand off the buzzer...
285:	Dr. August:	The DRC, Ghaelen. They control us.
286:	Hitana shakes her head
287:	Whilyam:	Next.
288:	Ruby O'Degee:	what are the concerns you speak of?
289:	Migo:	The answer is ....there is no SHOULD....there is what each will do
290:	Vortmax:	Clean cup, clean cup! Move down, move down!
291:	tkwiggins:	We have commen interests for sure... but I don't think the majority of explorers feel there is a common problem. At least enough so to warrant cavern-wide orgs such as an explorers' union.
292:	Nalates:	Migo, good point!
293:	Gadren:	TIME means TIME, everyone
294:	ireenquench would like to remind everyonne that this is an OOC meeting, becuase that is important to keep in mind
295:	Gilgameesh:	if any player will able to create a org and play with it, the community will automatically balance them.... no way to pre constitute orgs
296:	Kiteerah:	Whatever is the concern of the time
297:	Whilyam:	In short SHUT UP!
298:	Migo:	DRC and representation is a different issue
299:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	hey, Whilyam.....
300:	Vortmax:	Butch: Question 2?
301:	Butch:	The second question is Should we be organized around HOODS or non-Hood organizations as the basis of a community wide organization, should one exist?
302:	Migo:	oops
303:	Butch:	You have 10 minutes.
304:	Vortmax:	In short, both
305:	Hitana:	puh
306:	Migo:	yes
307:	jimmyleg:	both
308:	Dr. August:	Both. There should be Guilds/groups and hoods, but we should be able to join more than one.
309:	Hitana:	yes both
310:	Skellington98:	both
311:	Vortmax:	Again, it's the "how"
312:	Kiteerah:	Both
313:	Hitana:	i agree dr. august!
314:	tkwiggins:	Both
315:	Whilyam:	Both. And there can be no community-wide organization, because we all think differen on some things.
316:	Dr. August cheers
317:	Gilgameesh:	free choice for, i stay with my point: pleople must be free to play as they feel
318:	Jaytee:	both
319:	Gadren:	I think that saying "should" here isn't good because that's everyone's decision...are there any advantages or disadvantages to either?
320:	Thend:	I doubt some would be so willing to give up their Hood membership,/allegiance, though using a seperate avvie for this purpose may be the answe
321:	Vortmax:	Nothing is stopping you from being involved in multiple groups, either.
322:	Sifr:	definitely organised around hoods, with some main connection to who's running the city...
323:	Ghaelen D'Lareh thinks that if there is not enough convincing evidence for organization at all, the way to organize is a mute point
324:	Hitana:	btw is anyone recording this?
325:	Whilyam:	Yes
326:	Butch is
327:	Skellington98:	butch is
328:	Hitana:	good
329:	Hitana thanks you
330:	ireenquench:	I think we should not be organized as a community-wide organization, because that task is impossible and will only lead to unfair representation, thus the question of hood representation is moot (because it is unfair)
331:	Dave Mac:	Guilds=WoW=pain and suffering, and pwning and n00bs, none of which have a place in Uru.
332:	Butch:	So the assumption to the question is flawed, that it should be one wya or the other.
333:	Hitana:	hmm
334:	Ghaelen D'Lareh agrees with Dave Mac
335:	Migo:	correct, Butch
336:	Gilgameesh:	there is not only WoW around and all depends by content of game
337:	Whilyam:	Correct, no organization/representation. However, people should be able to gather in hood or non-hood
338:	Thend:	Guiilds in WOW are not necessairly applicable to Guilds in Uru
339:	Dr. August:	OOC: URU is non-competitive, however.
340:	Dave Mac:	I was kind of making a joke with the WoW thing.
341:	Whilyam:	If this question is moot, shall we moveo nto the next one?
342:	Gilgameesh:	agree, thend. don't compare wow with uru
343:	Butch:	5 minutes on the question of hoods or non-hoods as the basis for organization.
344:	Skellington98:	OOC: but we have made t a place for fun copetition
345:	Migo:	Do what you will, harm none
346:	Whilyam:	Butch?
347:	Skellington98:	OOC: Dni olympics
348:	Butch:	Yes, Whilyam.
349:	Hitana:	so what were the two possibilities again?
350:	Skellington98:	ooc: A- Zandi Shirt races
351:	Sifr:	if we have it like the Commonwealth you get every hood who asks to be represented having an equal say... (as opposed to a UN or EU sort of system)
352:	Dave Mac:	Hood and non-hood.
353:	Whilyam:	If this question is moot, why not move onto the next one?
354:	Hitana:	thanks dave
355:	Thend:	Whatever works, IMO, a purpose defines the medium. And agree that affiliation should not have to be exclusive
356:	Butch:	if the question is flawed, then attack the question
357:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	agreed re: moving on
358:	Whilyam shrugs
359:	Whilyam decapitates the question
360:	Butch starts to laugh
361:	Migo:	we are family...
362:	tkwiggins:	lol
363:	Dr. August:	How many questions are there?
364:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	lol
365:	Hitana:	lol
366:	Butch:	10
367:	Dave Mac:	I think we may be considering the organizations a bit too formally.
368:	Thend:	So, loose rather than some stringiant format
369:	ireenquench:	I am also strongly opposed to official guilds at this point in time, should that mean that players that may be interested in a certain topic a guild is for are deprived from certain priviledges a guild may have... and should the guild be led by players who would be allowed to make decisions over others... I want to pusure my interests as i see fit, I want to be able to join several groups or not, I dont want anyone making decisions for me
370:	Thend:	gah!
371:	Whilyam:	TEXT!
372:	Butch:	If that is what we think the Explorers should purse, rather than what DRC/Cyan forced on us, yes, loose organization.
373:	Skellington98:	huh?
374:	Hitana:	yes thats right ireen
375:	sundog:	Am I correct that what we are discussing is how to encourage explorer to explorer interaction or is the status quo all right (hoods), what are the other possiblities
376:	jimmyleg:	the ki overhead might play a part in multiple hoods?
377:	Migo:	Well, heck, you know, you want to form a stringent society, group...I cannot stop you, and may not join you
378:	ireenquench:	Cyan as the game designers are the only authority i want to accept, i don not even accept the DRC as the full authority
379:	Butch:	That's the next question sundog
380:	Dave Mac:	What the heck have DRC/Cyan forced on us?
381:	Thend:	sundog, organization possibilities
382:	Dave Mac:	We're not oppressed, we're playing a dang game!
383:	Whilyam:	Some would say, Liaisons.
384:	Dr. August cheers
385:	Hitana:	lol
386:	Dr. August:	Thank you Ireen.
387:	sundog:	thnks
388:	Migo:	ireen, agreed
389:	Skellington98:	aw. i gotta go
390:	Gilgameesh:	cyan/gametap have different issue on this: legal questions and other eula related.
391:	Whilyam:	However explorers asked for those first
392:	Skellington98:	shorah 'tee all
393:	Hitana:	bye skellington
394:	ireenquench:	since there is also the option to "play alone" i see no way how these players could be fairly represented in any hood based or guld based representation
395:	Gilgameesh:	the point of view is different
396:	Butch:	Do we want to close this question early? Many of us seem to agree that it is flawed.
397:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	OOC: isn't the DRC imposition part of the overall story? Therefore necessary to it in ways we "IC" don't yet understand??
398:	Ruby O'Degee:	Yes, I have the same question. What does the liaison do that affects me an an explorer?
399:	Vortmax:	How much time is left?
400:	Whilyam cuts off the questions punctuation marks
401:	Thend:	Who decides for us, as a group, as ireen said, is a good point, and troublesome
402:	Whilyam:	I'm still attacking it
403:	Hitana:	indeed!
404:	Butch:	2 mintues on the question of hoods v. non-hoods as the basis of organziation
405:	Valdez:	shorah evreyone
406:	ireenquench:	if some form of representation will be forced upon us.... NOT hood based
407:	Vortmax:	Yes, I think that's flawed. It can't be one or the other. It would leave too many people out.
408:	Sifr:	exactly, we have the right to be antisocial if we choose...
409:	Hitana:	yes
410:	Migo:	You decide, yourself, actually, the powers that be...do something you don't like...vote with your feet, pocket book,
411:	Hitana:	lol sifr
412:	Dave Mac:	I think this question has, at its core, the same flawed presumption of the first one. Do we really need a formal organizational structure?
413:	Hitana:	YOU ARE YOU, you know what i mean
414:	Thend:	If things are designed like this, though Butch is the moderator, things can possibly proceed peacefully for all, with each doing their own paerticular bit afterwards
415:	Butch:	TIME
416:	Gilgameesh:	we don't need
417:	Whilyam:	The rest ofthe questions in this section also deal with the community-wide org idea and are also flawed.
418:	Butch:	The question is closed.
419:	ireenquench:	indeed, we dont need all this, thats my point, its more hurtfull than helpfull
420:	Hitana:	yes
421:	Hitana:	next question, please!
422:	Ghaelen D'Lareh nods
423:	Vortmax:	Heh, call me a dreamer, but I think it could be very useful.
424:	Migo:	We got anything positive to work on?
425:	Ghaelen D'Lareh nods to Ireen's statement
426:	Dave Mac:	Positive? This is Uru, we don't do positive.
427:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	this isn't positive?
428:	Vortmax laughs
429:	Butch:	Next question, Under any organizaqtion, including none, how do we represent and balance the contribution of large and small groups alike?
430:	yogayoda laughs
431:	Gadren:	Until we have concrete needs for people to step up and solve, abstract discussions about organization can't really do much good
432:	Whilyam:	Positive sucks! It hides logs from us and does evil things!
433:	Valdez:	only negetive?
434:	ireenquench:	NONE NONE NONE lol
435:	Dr. August:	Incredible question!
436:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	what?
437:	Sifr takes a moment to get his brain around the question and stop going blanked...
438:	Valdez:	ok, anyone start a log on this?
439:	Thend:	ireen, by your statement on this possible organizing, you appear to make a blanket condemnation of froming into any groups at all, no matter the intent
440:	Hitana thinks she didn't understand that question
441:	Butch:	Rewording: How do we keep larger groups from walking over smaller ones?
442:	Gilgameesh:	this is automatically solved by each group, no need to have redetermined rules
443:	Vortmax:	Again, and interesting question. We have to find a way to involve all of those who want it, regardless of affiliation
444:	Migo:	please repeat the question?, it has scrolled out
445:	Gadren:	Through the free market -- I don't think we need a strict system of giving people voices... but those that are able to do more and help people will end up having a say in things, on their own
446:	Whilyam:	None. People must do this themselves. Ask a Liaison their concern and have it weeded out by popular opinion.
447:	Ambientkatz shakes his head
448:	Gilgameesh:	i already suggested: teaming
449:	Butch:	The question is: How do we balance and represent the contribution of all groups large and small.
450:	Kiteerah:	By each group having an equal voice
451:	Valdez:	i will start a log
452:	Gilgameesh:	whaqt we need is the chat working, not necessarily the same instance
453:	Dave Mac:	Representation to whom?
454:	jimmyleg:	contributions are without specific award. adventure, discovery, and noteriety are the rewards maybe
455:	Vortmax:	Valdez, Butch is logging
456:	Whilyam:	People cannot be included if they don't speak up. This job goes to the people.
457:	Hitana:	ans why?
458:	pirschen43:	Contribution towards what
459:	Hitana:	and
460:	Valdez:	ah
461:	weeKIly Reporter:	Set up a democracy?
462:	Butch:	Contribution to the comunity
463:	ireenquench:	I love groups, I love organizing myself... we all can do that in our natural flow, it should not be officially forced... it is in our nature to form teams about things.... let it happen without it being tied to some kind of "representation"
464:	Thend:	If we come to a concensus, then have the freedom to decide whether our particular specialities can carry it out, or if we want to at all, then we could proceed, as a 'group'
465:	Dave Mac:	I can't think of a way one group could possibly affect another.
466:	Hitana:	i agree with ireen
467:	yogayoda:	a galactic republic
468:	Whilyam:	Talk to Liaisons, talk to other explorers to get your idea/faction/whatever recognised more
469:	Vortmax:	That's one thought. Perhaps a bicameral legislature, based on both representation for groups and representation based on population.
470:	Sifr:	i suppose what we could do is have the liasons have a hood bulletin board on the imager, you have an issue, give it to them, they put it on the imager, then every week or so discuss it to the DRC?
471:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	Cavern life is much like real life.....not all voices are heard everyday. Unfortunate, but realistic.
472:	pirschen43:	In terms of contributing to just a feeling of "community" each group, big and small, is its own communicty and can interact with other groups/individuals as they please
473:	Vortmax:	Not "legislature", but you know what I mean.
474:	Gadren:	O_o winces at the idea of legislature
475:	Gadren:
476:	Gilgameesh:	agree, ireen. it will be automatic. any group freely organize themselves
477:	Whilyam:	We don't want a legislature
478:	Butch:	5 minutes of the question of how do we represent and balance the contribution of all groups large and small in the cavern
479:	Thend:	Individuals should not be handicapped because they do not wish to be a part of any official group
480:	pirschen43:	OOC they don't contribute to anything specific in the game, just a community feeling
481:	Hitana:	yes thend!
482:	Ruby O'Degee:	we can't balance contribution. It doesn't work that way. Explorers contribute when they can and will. If they don't get criticized too much, and therein lies some problems
483:	Vortmax:	Exactly, Thend.
484:	Gadren:	Here's my rule of thumb: don't think of these groups as if they're nations or states or provinces or parties...think of them as interest groups
485:	Hitana:	indeed!
486:	Whilyam:	I'd say leave this up to explorers. Let them voice their opinions their own way. See what I did withthe Liaison issue just by asking a REs Eng. Got Cate to talk to Vort next day.
487:	Vortmax:	The independants must also have representation
488:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	but all groups, if they have a hood, could easily be represented by having the name of their hood on the public list if they wanted it to be seen
489:	jimmyleg:	i agree, gadren
490:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	and Cyan has to fix that
491:	Migo:	Look, if Butch has specifically said, this is not about DRC and representations, then ....the issue, becoming muddied
492:	Butch:	The question is how to repersent and balance the contribution of all groups in the cavern, large and small.
493:	Valdez:	man, you guys are turning a computer game into a country!
494:	ireenquench:	we have to trust the natural flow of enough of us being capable of organizing us among ourselves... it is possible... i did it during UU the entire time... but it has nothing to do with representation or rewards... its just what people do anyway, in a simple way.... and should they decide to remain solitary thats fine too.
495:	Ruby O'Degee:	we are all indepeendants aren't we?
496:	Gilgameesh:	in any game there are groups but any player can group with others just for the actual task, so no need any special rule. just freedom
497:	Thend:	Groups can and do proceed freely, this is no different, if there is a REASON for it, a commonality that we all share and decide for ourselves to promote, whatever form that takes
498:	Dave Mac:	So now we're going to have groups of explorers each connected through a big representational group, which is then responsible to no one and has no authority and creates an unecessary buracracy and confuses newcomers? Great idea!
499:	Nis'ah:	One way would be to put their contributions in an easily accesable place for everyone
500:	Gadren starts to laugh
501:	Thend nods his head
502:	Ghaelen D'Lareh grins at Dave Mac
503:	weeKIly Reporter fans himself because this is getting heated
504:	Butch:	3 mintues on the question of how to represent and blanace the contribution of all groups in the cavern, large and small
505:	Ruby O'Degee:	Anyone can plan an event or like and advertise it at Moul
506:	Gilgameesh:	this is really complicated and unnecessary. the community will evolve automatucally during gameplay just don't force anything
507:	Dave Mac:	Lets set up our own government. Personally I'd prefer a unicameral legislature, but that's not a deal-breaker.
508:	Hitana:	lol
509:	Ambientkatz shakes his head
510:	ireenquench:	Doing something in a group is simple... get together , organize something do it.... if you dont like what people in your grpup do either work on it with them or leave the group
511:	Whilyam:	No.
512:	sundog:	I think alot of this starts with communications and clarity , such as the CNN, people feel included if they know whats going on
513:	Whilyam:	No government
514:	Valdez:	Despotisum
515:	Thend:	Politics = NOT the answer
516:	Dave Mac:	AMEN, ireen.
517:	Sifr:	hehe, we're all independant though, would we be able to get everyone into a group?... good god, are we going to have a civil war and become browncoats? has his on order
518:	Gadren:	I wasn't shouting before so I don't know if everyone got what I said...I just think that groups are interest groups and not nations or states...no one thinks that we need to set up an organization to represent the ACLU or Christian Coalition or all those interest groups
519:	Nalates:	I doubt contributions can be balanced. If they are worthwhile to the comunity they will be used and apprecaited. Otherwise the community will ignore them.
520:	weeKIly Reporter:	Heh Hence my KI-newsletter
521:	Thend:	the question here is more specific, I just noticed
522:	Ruby O'Degee:	Or an autocracy, is always nice. Anyone here want to be king. Vort ? are you still available?
523:	Butch:	2 mintues on the question of how to represent and balance the contribution of groups large and small.
524:	Valdez:	me
525:	Valdez:	me
526:	Valdez:	me
527:	sundog:	and the Ki Letter
528:	yogayoda:	a capital building!
529:	Dr. August:	This needs to be more organized.
530:	Sifr:	i say, Commonwealth. everyone who asks for a say, gets a say
531:	Thend:	Balance it where, Butch?
532:	Dave Mac:	You know, a facist dictatorship would be easiest. I deem myself supreme ruler of all D'ni.
533:	Ghaelen D'Lareh roars with laughter
534:	Valdez:	King valdez
535:	Whilyam:	We do need some leadership to be the final word. I think that should be Cyan.
536:	Butch:	How do we keep larger groups from rolling over the smaller ones?
537:	ireenquench:	I just want to add one more thing.... the language barrier.... what to non-english speakers do? if so much of this will be regulated and rewarded, they will be excluded even further than they are now
538:	Hitana:	exactly
539:	Vortmax:	Too late you two. I'm already Emperor.
540:	Nalates:	The Cartographers enforced policy by using their own web site. That did not stop others from making their maps and only controlled the GoC's maps.
541:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	yes, and we need more people in control
542:	Ruby O'Degee:	Yes, facisim work too. Very organized it is
543:	jimmyleg:	that is cyan
544:	Ruby O'Degee:	Oh sorry about the demotion vort
545:	Butch:	TiME
546:	Dave Mac:	We need NO ONE in control. Thats's the point.
547:	Whilyam:	BUZZ
548:	Thend:	Yes, but in what context, Butch? We already have groups working seperatelky and in harmony here
549:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	right, Dave
550:	Dave Mac:	Thanks, Ghaelen.
551:	Gadren:	Right Nalates... groups will end up succeeding based on how well they give their services
552:	Sifr really isn't into being a king, can he be duke and just control the stairs or the alley?
553:	Valdez:	ha ha Vort
554:	tkwiggins:	I think the same impulse that leads to the creation of interest groups will work to balance them. Those groups that serve a purpose for enough people will remain, others will die of their own accord.
555:	amonre:	sorry, I keep having to run back and forth from here >_<
556:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	lol
557:	Gadren:	UO's Cavern Today maybe be larger, but it's good to see a KI newsletter
558:	Hitana:	the larger groups have to be nice with the smaller ones
559:	sundog:	true
560:	Ambientkatz nods his head
561:	weeKIly Reporter:	Thank Gadren
562:	Gadren:	it's all about finding one's niche...UO isn't doing anything in the actual Cavern
563:	Butch:	Last question in this section. How do we include unaligned and new Explorers who are willing to participate in community-wide evetns?
564:	Dr. August:	TCT doesn't report on user storylines, either.
565:	Butch:	10 mintues on the question.
566:	Dr. August:	(OOC)
567:	Sifr:	we let them?
568:	amonre likes MYSTlore's news section
569:	Whilyam:	Yeah, this question seems to answer itself for me.
570:	Dave Mac:	I'm an unaligned newcomer, and I found my way to this meeting.
571:	Hitana:	yes
572:	Nalates:	One of the best ways I've seen to do this is the Hood Viewrs, like those in this Hood.
573:	Dave Mac:	No one kept me out.
574:	sundog:	well again the hood system is important - this hood the begginers for instance
575:	Sifr:	if they want in, who are we to tell them to naff off?
576:	yogayoda:	im quite new also
577:	Hitana:	if they like, the ca ncome
578:	Gadren:	Well, how were people without group affiliation handled during the D'olympics?
579:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	but CCN does, Dr. August
580:	Butch:	Then expand on the question, HOW to we get people invovled.
581:	Hitana:	can come
582:	Thend:	In-Cavern, as in in the Cavern, not the forums, communication. Word-of-mouth so that evryone feels involved and that there's an actual community thing going on here
583:	pirschen43:	An in-game place to survey the existence of various "groups" would be great (other than just a list of public hoods)
584:	tkwiggins:	More ways to announce things in-game would help include more explorers... lots of whom don't frequent the forums.
585:	Whilyam:	Again, we let them.
586:	Gadren:	GoG is a good idea, we need more people welcoming and helping people
587:	yogayoda:	an announcement board
588:	Sifr:	are GoG that active?
589:	Whilyam:	If you're talking about events in the cavern, I think the DRC idea of posting in cavern and letting it seep into the forums is best.
590:	Hitana:	with adverds on the imager
591:	sundog:	in game
592:	tkwiggins:	Announcement boards, reader screens.
593:	Vortmax:	Basically give them a voice. Announce far and wide about things going on, and let them speak up with their concerns. And then actually LISTEN and CONSIDER those concerns.
594:	Gadren:	I think on urulive.com there's an event calendar people can add events to
595:	tkwiggins:	KI messages
596:	Nalates:	Who controls the announcement board?
597:	Dave Mac:	I think we should get a 30 second spot in the super bowl.
598:	Thend:	Announcement boards In-Cavern would be uber
599:	weeKIly Reporter:	Yes thats why I started the newsletter to inform those who are not in the cavern at all times to keep up with whats new
600:	amonre:	The GoG isn't as visible as I think it should be
601:	Butch:	The question is how do we include unaligned or new Exploerrs willing to participate in community-wide events
602:	Thend:	lol Dave
603:	Sifr:	they seemed to be a bit... erm... distant when i dropped into see them the other day
604:	Ruby O'Degee:	yes, gadren there is
605:	Hitana:	announcement boards!
606:	ireenquench:	we should just keep on telling newcomers what's happening... tell them about the stuff we do...spend time in the cavern adn point them to our sites... if they like it they can join, if they dont like it they can start their own stuff
607:	Hitana:	exactly
608:	Kiteerah:	I have to go, have a meeting
609:	Ambientkatz nods his head
610:	amonre:	bye kitee
611:	Nalates:	Horay Ireen!!!
612:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	agreed, Ireen, and besides, that's part of the way the story could be told
613:	Gilgameesh:	this is a Cyan task not our...
614:	Ruby O'Degee:	yes, keep directing them to the event page at MOUL
615:	Butch:	The question is how do we include unaligned or new Explorers willing to participate in community-wide events
616:	Sheila'R:	haven;t we always done that?
617:	Vortmax:	Tell them about what's going on. Find out what they think. Invite them to share their thoughts.
618:	Sifr:	i'm sure they'll just fall into the fray with the rest of us...
619:	Dave Mac:	Are we not doing that now?
620:	amonre:	your question implies that unaligned explorers are having a hard time participating... why is that?
621:	Whilyam:	I agree with Gilgamesh
622:	Sheila'R:	Exactly Dave Mac
623:	Nalates:	The best way is to talk to them in cavern
624:	Hitana:	yes!
625:	Gadren:	right... can anyone give an example of when that didn't happen?
626:	Vortmax:	Yeah, we are Dave.
627:	sundog:	well that is a point - one way is through the Kis to the imagers in the bevins - info can be spread virally - this worked for the new year parties for example
628:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	why funnel all new explorers to one mondo place? If we are part of the story, aren't our methods of passing on information just as valuable?
629:	Thend:	Yes, Sheila, just need to be more diligent In-Cavern now because of the immense influx of new explorers
630:	Sifr:	i mean, if Yeesha appears in the cavern, people drool and go "ooooo" then they'll figure out its important
631:	jimmyleg:	i agree, d mac
632:	Hitana:	lol
633:	tkwiggins:	I'm not drooling over Yeesha until she loses the tatoos.
634:	Dave Mac:	Nice one, Sifr.
635:	Nis'ah:	but then they can't get to where she is because of population caps
636:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	we should all talk if we want and fall silent when we're tired of talking
637:	sundog:	the Bahro seem loud today !
638:	Dave Mac:	I just kind of wandered in.
639:	Whilyam:	The caps are Cyan's business
640:	ireenquench:	the most important thing is to just be in Cavern.. live this place... any groups I would want to be with would be inclusive to newcomers....just have faith.... and tell them where the good stuff is... be friendly , listen to what they are interested in... if they are interested in something else than you...even point them to groups you are not affiliated with
641:	Butch:	Modification of hte question: Do we need to do more to include unaligned and new Exploers in events?
642:	Dave Mac:	I didn't see it anywhere.
643:	Sifr:	i'm not drooling over her, i'm still scared Atrus will sit me down and give me a talk to have her in by midnight...
644:	yogayoda:	word of mouth
645:	sundog:	lol sifr
646:	amonre:	why unaligned?
647:	Ruby O'Degee:	there is already group called CAT that works with event makers to ad their events. Is it still online Ireen?
648:	amonre:	A lot of people are unaligned....
649:	Dave Mac:	Perhaps we could see meetings like this on Cyan's in cavern events calendar.
650:	Nalates:	In this case I found it by looking to see where everyone was. 40+ here.
651:	Gilgameesh:	we don't need to do anything apart of being helpful if asked for that
652:	Butch:	Unaligned because I do not know how many do or do not see themselves as part of a in cavern group
653:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	no, butch, just talk to them, and don't be mean or act tired of them
654:	ireenquench:	yes... CAT still exists, but currently nothing is happening as far as I know
655:	Dave Mac:	Yes! It exists! but there's nothing on it.
656:	Thend:	Word of mouth is soo important here, especially now to generate and retain interest
657:	Hitana:	i think that would be good for a start, but some may be confused
658:	Whilyam:	Butch: No. This is something that should be fairly easy to someone as there are many helpful people who will help fill them in.
659:	sundog:	really (CAT) see I hadn't heard - but that kind of thing yes
660:	yogayoda:	announcements on the internet or in uru?
661:	ireenquench:	but the way I understand CAT we would aid anyone with events... even if it were only advice how to hold your own events
662:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	I saw this meeting posted
663:	Sifr:	anyone know if the LODGE is still running?
664:	sundog:	I think there needs to be more in game communications
665:	Hitana:	exactly
666:	Whilyam:	Any announcements I think should be done first in game.
667:	Butch:	5 minutes on the question of involving unaligned or new Explorers willing to participate in wommunity-wide events.
668:	weeKIly Reporter:	There needs to be a way to inform both in and out of game
669:	pirschen43:	In uru is best, remember the target player
670:	Vortmax:	I think too many of us assume everyone knows what we know. We must remember that noto everyone knows about CAT, or the In Cavern Calendar, or the DRCLs, or any of that. We must tell them.
671:	Nalates:	Does someone want to run a mailing list?
672:	Ruby O'Degee:	yes,it is a wonderful help - the CAT group
673:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	right, CAT is great
674:	Thend:	I'd say in Uru, yoga, especially due to the fact that we need people DOWN HERE, as opposed to on the boards the surface
675:	Whilyam:	Cyan needs to help with that, Vort
676:	Gilgameesh:	agree vortmax
677:	ireenquench:	anyone can conatct me for example if you want advice how to organize In Game events.... I am experience with this... so I am willing to share expertise
678:	Valdez:	so have we come to a conclusion?
679:	amonre:	someone who never visits any sites... should still be up-to-date what is happening
680:	tkwiggins:	Word of mouth is important, but time intensive and spotty to conact new people in-game. In-game sources of posted info would help.
681:	Vortmax:	Exactly, amon.
682:	Thend nods his head
683:	Eleri:	The forums shoult be the second line of information spreading.
684:	Nalates:	Getting CAT on the beginners info on the viewer here would help
685:	Valdez:	when Eder Delin opens I might throw a party
686:	Gilgameesh:	don't forget that it's really easy to exploit indavertently the game for newcomers
687:	Hitana:	but of course there is no real need because ppl are always helpful
688:	Butch:	4 minutes on the question of involving unaligned and new Explorers in community-wide events
689:	amonre:	which I consider part of the DRCL's job, but that's for later
690:	Butch:	make make 3
691:	weeKIly Reporter:	There should be an events listing that can be controled site-wise and also be seen ingame-wise
692:	Vortmax:	I'd love to see more info on the classroom imagers
693:	Hitana:	and the CAT is really good!
694:	Eleri:	ask for, and involve volunteers
695:	tkwiggins:	2nd Vort's idea
696:	weeKIly Reporter:	Heh
697:	Dave Mac:	Stupid question: CAT?
698:	Vortmax:	Cavern Activities Team
699:	amonre:	Vort, I agree... the classroom is a bit empty too
700:	Dave Mac:	Thanks.
701:	Ruby O'Degee:	Cavern Actvities Tedam
702:	Dave Mac:	Never heard of them.
703:	Bear:	Not stupid. what is CAT?
704:	Hitana:	right vort!
705:	Ruby O'Degee:	team
706:	Bear:	Thanks.
707:	yogayoda:	who might be a part of this cat?
708:	Vortmax:	They set up various activities in the Cavern
709:	Sifr:	yeah, i think word of mouth might be better than posting it up... its about exploration... you don't want to be told something that ruins the surprise of finding something? (tries to figure if this is relevant)
710:	amonre:	cavern activities tadaam
711:	Thend:	The thing is, if there was more word of mout instead of pointing to forums, then the way information would spread here would begin to form its own casual but definite structure, we are just too used to the forums, etc
712:	Sifr:	i mean, hints are fine...
713:	Hitana:	yes no spoilers please!
714:	ireenquench:	I think new explorers might just want to test waters.... but they can only do so if we start living in this place and offer what we can (besides cyan) so i suggest starting events... inviting people... invent new stuff... and good ideas will be welcomed and stick
715:	sundog waves
716:	jimmyleg:	i agree, thend
717:	Thend nods his head
718:	Vortmax:	Agreed ireen
719:	yogayoda:	yes
720:	tkwiggins:	Word of mouth is great but tends to go to ppl who are into social connections. Posting in-game would cover the solo-tending players.
721:	Butch:	1 minute on the question of how to involve new and unaligned exploeres in community wide evet6ns
722:	Ghaelen D'Lareh agrees
723:	Eleri:	or have a way groups can get news on the classroom imagers so everyone can see that
724:	Hitana:	a welcome the new explorers event? good idea!
725:	Butch:	TIME
726:	Thend:	Yes, sounds good to me too Hitana
727:	Vortmax:	So basically, we need to spread the word both by mouth and in some way posted in the Cavern.
728:	ireenquench:	Well hoods can post suff on their images, lets make use of that
729:	Butch:	The next section is on Playing Roles: IC and OOC play
730:	amonre:	exactly ireen
731:	Hitana:	mouth to mouth thats it!
732:	Thend:	lol
733:	Hitana:	whats IC and OOC?
734:	Dave Mac:	Where did Dr. A. go?
735:	Dr. August:	WeeKIly Reporter, I will have to reschedule the interview. Something's come up. I'm sorry I can't stay. I should be in later or tomorrow.
736:	Ruby O'Degee:	Yes, I agree eleri, the classrrom imager should advertise the events listed on the MOUL site
737:	sundog:	yea !
738:	Hitana blushes
739:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	we do that, Ireen, but when the hood goes private...... hard for new people to come and see
740:	Butch:	IC is In Cavern, playing as if you are a character
741:	Dr. August (I'm on the surface, be back in a minute):
742:	weeKIly Reporter:	Ok thats fine
743:	Vortmax:	Simple definitions: IC - In Cavern. You play as yourself, but as if all of this were real.
744:	Butch:	OOC is out of Cavern, playing as if this was a game and nothing else.
745:	amonre:	IC = In Cavern, meanign that you treat everything as real, and not a game (you're not playing a game)
746:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	events across all hoods in the classroom imager... that's the way to advertise them
747:	amonre:	OOC = you treat everything as a game, Uru is a game by Cyan, and the DRC isn't real either
748:	Butch:	DRCL did post a standards document on the topic on the forums.
749:	Butch:	First question of 2.
750:	Whilyam nods his head
751:	ireenquench:	RP = if you treat this as real but are not entirrely yourself
752:	Hitana:	lol welll....
753:	amonre:	yeah, I do recommend reading that article
754:	Vortmax:	Further definition: RP - Role Playing - playing a character who is not yourself.
755:	amonre:	(IC is close to RP)
756:	Hitana:	k thx
757:	ireenquench disagress with amonre
758:	Butch:	How should we balance the desire of individuals and groups to play the game differnt ways, given the way we interact with the cavern.
759:	Whilyam:	Respect
760:	Vortmax:	Simple. Be respectful of all play styles.
761:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	maybe the events that are approved to go up on the event's board, Migo
762:	ireenquench:	Respect.
763:	Hitana:	yes!
764:	Butch:	And yes, I forgot to include RP.
765:	Dave Mac:	R-E-S-P-E-C-T!
766:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	yes, respect
767:	Hitana:	lol
768:	Sifr:	agree completely
769:	Vortmax:	And that's from ALL SIDES.
770:	Whilyam:	Indeed.
771:	amonre agrees
772:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	for everyone, both ways, all perspectives
773:	yogayoda:	sock it to me
774:	Nalates:	Wow! We agree on something.
775:	Dave Mac:	I haven't noticed a big issue with that one.
776:	ireenquench:	Willingness to accept others peferred play style in cavern and on the forums
777:	Gadren:	and probably most importantly...dont' be rude to people and try to cover it up with ICness or saying "why are you taking me so seriously? it's just a game!"
778:	weeKIly Reporter:	That was a quick and decisive answer
779:	Hitana:	you do we have to choose again for IC OE OCC?
780:	Sifr:	i suppose we already do that... we accept the DRC even if we're not playing strictly IC
781:	Whalyn:	I have, Dave.
782:	Hitana:	or
783:	Thend:	We switch back and forth, as many of us have always done, though with perhaps bringing things together with an In-Cavern perspective, no matter the subject involved
784:	Whilyam:	This should go beyond IC OOC to all areas. Be respectful.
785:	Butch:	The question is HOW should we balance the desire of individuals and groups to want to play given IC, OOC, and RP styles
786:	Vortmax:	And you don't have to choose either. I go back and forth between IC and OOC
787:	Eleri:	heck, just be respectful. Too many examples of people forgetting how to treat others with human dignity
788:	Hitana:	me too
789:	Whilyam:	Butch: Respect.
790:	tkwiggins:	We gotta, Sifr, or Kodama will kill us!
791:	Whilyam:	That is how.
792:	Sifr:	hehe too true! he scares me
793:	Dave Mac:	I think most people kind of go back and forth.
794:	Butch:	But what is respect in this matter?
795:	amonre:	I think we're doing just fine now
796:	Erik:	Why is everyone here?
797:	ireenquench:	Willingness to step outside of your own play style just a little bit in emergency situations and especially with newcomers..... but also willingness to accept that another may not want to step out of theirs
798:	Gilgameesh:	sorry i gtg, shora
799:	Butch:	I believe we are organzied around trust, consensus and respect, but how do we ACT on that?
800:	Dave Mac:	We're just having a little discussion, Erik.
801:	Thend nods his head
802:	yogayoda:	cross the two types more
803:	Ward:	WHY IS IT SUCH BUSSY HERE?
804:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	and don't go around correcting IC/OOC statements
805:	weeKIly Reporter:	We should respect others right to nplay a game they pay for on a monthly basis they way they want to
806:	Ruby O'Degee:	If we support one another without being competitive or jealous bunches of stuff would get done around here
807:	Erik:	What is this meeting about?
808:	Eleri:	in this? Speaking with courtesy. Keeping the insults out of it. Being basically polite
809:	Hitana:	there should be someone saying: you think this is real?! are you crazy!?
810:	amonre:	Don't try to be IC in an OOC chat, or OOC in an IC chat, etc
811:	Butch:	5 mintues on the question of how to blanace the desire of groups to play IC, OCC and RP styles.
812:	Hitana:	shouldn't i meant
813:	Gadren:	shout I think most people are find...but the DRC forums have been filled with arguments and debates about the Laiisons that aren't just IC play -- they are direct insults and attacks on us in real life...CAGrayWolf didn't resign for story reasons -- it was because he (and we) was truly stressed
814:	amonre:	why do you think IC and RP are so differnet, ireen?
815:	Thend:	Gently encourage immersion, as this is not the surface, but be open to all types of people/discussion
816:	Sifr:	I personally like to play with the 5th wall, accepting that the me in the cavern is not real, in a world that accepts the cavern is real, and not being so sure that me playing the game is that real either...
817:	Whilyam:	Simple, Butch. We DON'T act on this. We are respectful of all.
818:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	and if someone steps out of IC or OOC (in your opinion) leave it alone
819:	Hitana:	and on the other side ppl shouldn't try to make realistic ones believe it is real
820:	Vortmax:	Dont force your playing style on anyone else either.
821:	ireenquench:	I would also like to ask that the term IC Nazis is not used anymore, I find it extremely derogatory and hurtfull and I (as an IC player) do not wish to be put in that box.... IC player OOC plyers , RP players may be different within their own play styles, each player has an individual perspective, labeling is not good
822:	tkwiggins:	The players come from all walks of society -- I think we can expect to see roughly similar levels of respect, or lack of it, that you see in RL.
823:	Valdez:	and don't make judgements on other people's voices in voice chat, like me, I have been insuted gefore
824:	pirschen43:	Right now there's no easy means for a new player to find out that IC/OOC even exist... maybe have an OOC Orientation (to complement the existin gResEng IC oreientations) where stuff like that can be covered
825:	Whilyam:	I remember a topic "Another WIERDO in the cavern!" That was unacceptable.
826:	amonre:	ireen, definitely
827:	amonre agrees completely
828:	Hitana:	if you like to see that it is real...okay, if not okay!
829:	Butch:	4 mintues on the question of How to balance the desire of individuals and groups to play in IC, OOC and RP styles.
830:	When I first came into Uru (04)	I found the IC really confusing. Uru was my forst MMO
831:	weeKIly Reporter:	i think the "desires" of those playing IC OOC and RP are that of the same
832:	Eleri:	If IC is happening near you, and you don't like it, move yourself. Same thing for OOC.
833:	ireenquench nods her head
834:	Sifr nods his head
835:	Hitana nods her head
836:	Whilyam:	And with new players. If they seem confused about IC, pm them explaining it.
837:	Vortmax:	My biggest concern on this is with RPers who act as if their stories were official. A simple statement somewhere that it's a fan-run story would clear up a lot of conflict. It would probably even get more people involved.
838:	Thend:	And if IC or RP, respectfully, don't be too intrusive either
839:	yogayoda:	same here i had no idea what the cavern was really for
840:	Eleri:	If OOC is happening, and you want IC, go make IC happen somewhere else.
841:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	and if you are concerned with the tone of someone's "voice" don't forget to listen to your own, too
842:	Thend:	i meant OOC or RP*
843:	Eleri:	same for the opposite.
844:	jimmyleg:	i agree, vort
845:	Sifr:	yeah vort, a lot of tapestry forums threw me off...
846:	Hitana:	agree!
847:	Ward is asking why we are all here.
848:	jimmyleg:	good poit, vort
849:	Sifr:	i was like... we can do that? oh no... no we can't... the lies!
850:	Dave Mac:	The problem, vort, is that stating that a story is unofficial is a very OOC thing to do.
851:	Whilyam:	An informal meeting, ward.
852:	Sifr laughs
853:	Butch:	3 minutes on the question of BALANCE between IC OOC and RP styles
854:	Hitana:	lol
855:	tkwiggins:	I don't think it can be balanced, not effectively. Some ppl (most, I think) are sensistive to the play styles of others, other aren't. Trying to educate or convince the insensitive ones usually results in conflict.
856:	Eleri:	BUT, because this is meant to be a real place, expect IC to break out anywhere, any time.
857:	ireenquench:	as an example... the air sitters in the city.... they totally bug me.... but i would never tell them that... when I caht with them... I just turn my back and pretend they are staning behind me.... if their OOC talk bugs me I leave, no big deal
858:	Whilyam:	BALANCE is achieved by basic respect as individuals.
859:	Hitana:	exactly!
860:	Vortmax:	Understood, Dave. But it wouldn't hurt to step out of your character for a bit for that. Just like I might step into character to play along with them.
861:	Erik:	people shouldn't force others to be IC or OOC
862:	Dave Mac:	I'm with ireen on the flying people on the landing.
863:	Butch:	2 mintues on the question of balance between IC OCC and RP styles of play in the community
864:	Vortmax:	I REALLY don't think it would hurt the story.
865:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	right, Eleri, and OOC does as well, like when people are having technical trouble
866:	Valdez:	ok
867:	Eleri:	no one should be forced.
868:	Butch:	1 minute on the question of balance between IC OOC and RP style in the community
869:	Dave Mac:	Technical trouble with Uru?! Say it ain't so!
870:	Vortmax:	Just like Dr. August stepped OOC several times here tonight
871:	Vortmax:	Err, today
872:	Whilyam:	First thing we basically agree on.
873:	Nalates:	How does anyone in D'ni force another to do something?
874:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	lol@Dave
875:	Sifr:	yeah OOC for the newbies would be more helpful
876:	Thend finds that the subject of 'Cavern Gasses' affecting our minds/perceptions can explain a lot
877:	Butch:	TIME
878:	Eleri:	I think it's good to keep in mind that this is a story, though, so being in the story happens. And it is a game, so technical stuff happens
879:	Whilyam:	Words are our swords in D'ni.
880:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	well, the relto book in the face is one way, Nalates
881:	Hitana:	lol
882:	Butch:	The next question is close to one we have already discussed
883:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	what?
884:	Vortmax:	Heh, I think that was the best discussion yet
885:	Dave Mac:	Yeah, sorry about those Cavern Gasses, I had Taco Bell.
886:	Hitana:	yes?
887:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	why use something as beautiful as words?
888:	Whalyn:	We've got somebody out there now practicing relto throwing at the fountain.
889:	Whilyam:	"Uru: We take the first S out of Swords."
890:	Butch:	So, if the groups wants me to pass on it, just say so.
891:	Hitana:	are we ready?
892:	Thend:	Groups? What about the individuals? lol
893:	Butch:	Wht changes do you want to see in how Explorers communite with one another the evetns of the IC game given the mix of IC, OOC and RP styles
894:	amonre:	none
895:	Thend:	Nice, Whil
896:	Eleri:	there has been much gnashing of teeth
897:	Sifr:	has there?
898:	Vortmax:	I think that's done well now. We can share that info as we see fit.
899:	Dave Mac:	I really haven't noticed any conflict in the matter.
900:	Eleri:	Nothing IC events should always be primarily presented in cavern as IC
901:	Hitana:	should there be rules of communication? now c'mon!
902:	weeKIly Reporter:	Neither have I
903:	Whilyam:	Me either.
904:	ireenquench:	I would like to see more tolerance, thats all
905:	Vortmax:	If you're OOC, take the IC terms OOC.
906:	Hitana:	okay i see
907:	Sifr:	you mean in the regards of the museum being opened accidentally and the "Oh bugger, we glitched" instead of it being part of the story?
908:	Butch:	The question is what changes does anyone want to see in communication of story events, not just DRC/DRCL but all evetns, given the mix of IC, OOC and RP styles
909:	Vortmax:	If you're RP, incorporate it into your story.
910:	Dave Mac:	Seriously, I've noticed no intolerance, unless you count the railing floaters.
911:	Eleri:	if people want to share that info however they want, that's fine, but the first wave of news should be IC
912:	Thend:	We simply say things In-Cavern, tell the stroy (if you are predesposed to this way of thinking) and let anyone listening translate it for themselves however they like
913:	Whilyam:	(Wow... IC/OOC isthe thing we're agreeing on... didn't think that'd happen a few months ago...)
914:	Hitana:	lol
915:	Vortmax:	No kidding Whil...
916:	Hitana:	exactly thend
917:	Dave Mac:	I think people are pretty flexible about IC/OOC issues.
918:	Thend:	it was never a problem for me, unless people got all pushy and intrusive about it
919:	Vortmax:	And don't be fraid to step OOC either to help explain things, even if it's just in PM
920:	Whilyam:	It all comes down to respect.
921:	Hitana:	yes
922:	Sifr:	like saying about Yeesha and my theories of her being evil and having a gingerbread house of terror... its IC/OOC, who knows?
923:	Thend nods his head
924:	yogayoda:	simply put
925:	sundog:	concerns have been raised as to how the "main story" is presented and by whom and as to the role of the explorers is affecting that or the presentations of "fan story lines"
926:	Hitana:	so no changes, just be sure there is respect
927:	Gadren:	so how many more minutes do we have left for us to agree with each other?
928:	Butch:	the question is what changes would people like to see in the communication of story evetns given the mix of IC OOC and RP styles,
929:	Kam Uraki:	In a few, Vald.
930:	Butch:	5 minutes
931:	ireenquench:	The story is IC.... and it is so simple I see no reason to translate it.... but thats the perspective of an IC player so I would not know
932:	Migo:	we are family...
933:	amonre:	gadren: hey, we should agree while we can!
934:	amonre nods
935:	Migo cheers
936:	Thend:	Fn-storylines, frankly, can just be darn confusing, you don't know who you're talking to
937:	Whilyam:	Ah, one thing that should be raised is IC arguments going to OOC arguments. Like in Vegas, everything that is IC, stays IC.
938:	Thend:	lol
939:	Sifr:	i like that whil, that works
940:	Hitana:	well then the ppl have to explain it thend
941:	Thend nods his head
942:	Sifr:	people accept the world as it is... we'll get the backstory
943:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	oh dear, let's not make Uru Vegas, either....
944:	Whilyam:	Las Uru?
945:	amonre:	What's Vegas?
946:	tkwiggins:	I think the #1 thing that would help sell the overarching story of the restoration of the cavern is for the DRC-ness of the DRC site to be revived. More like it was in '03. A large online presence that really sells the Alternate Reality of the cavern.
947:	Hitana:	lol ghaelen
948:	Vortmax:	Ward, we're kinda busy right now.
949:	Nalates:	May be a Vagas age?
950:	Butch:	I have been in IC events where characters HATED eachother, but players were working very closely.
951:	Migo:	if I go OOC and some one doesn't like it,...please tell me
952:	Dave Mac:	It's just down the road. Now if only I could find that darn shaft..
953:	Sifr:	i mean, watch Pirates of the Caribbean, you accept their are Undead pirates... who needs that explaining? (odd example i know)
954:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	that's just it, Migo, no one should tell you
955:	ireenquench:	Butch, to me you are describing Roleplay, not IC
956:	Migo:	I don't want to offend....
957:	Vortmax:	Sifr: Willful suspension of disbelief. It's a great thing.
958:	Thend:	i agree tk, as an extension of the 'game', not just another forum
959:	Sifr:	exactly!
960:	amonre:	yes, that's RP
961:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	but with tolerance, Migo, no one would be offended
962:	amonre:	Dr. August is RP too
963:	tkwiggins:	The more IC and RP that comes from outside the explorer community (i.e. Cyan), the greater the suspension of disbelief in-cavern.
964:	sundog:	but I imagine it can be confusing for new explorers
965:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	that's the whole point of "tolerance"
966:	Whilyam:	It is RP if it is a position the person wouldn't normally take.
967:	Hitana:	exactly tk
968:	Hitana:	yes sun!
969:	Butch:	3 minutes on the question of changes in communication given the differences in OOC IC and RP styles.
970:	Panther (I'm on the surface, be back in a minute):
971:	Dave Mac:	Unfortunately, Dr. August had to leave right when we got to this topic.
972:	Whilyam starts to laugh
973:	weeKIly Reporter:	Coneinent eh?
974:	Whilyam:	Respect.
975:	Thend:	Problem is, we have been, and still are to a degree, sorely lacking in the 'official' storyline department
976:	weeKIly Reporter:	Conveient*
977:	Whilyam:	That's all that's needed.
978:	Migo:	Reporter, you got those notes for the next article?
979:	Dave Mac:	Well, he did make some OOC coments earlier, I think he really did have something on the surface to do.
980:	Hitana:	right, thend!
981:	Butch:	but how sould people be communicating their fac-IC or fan-RP storylines?
982:	Vortmax:	Look, here's my best suggestion on this. Be willing to step into a different type of play to share information as needed. Or at least point someone in the right direction to get help, if you can't do that.
983:	weeKIly Reporter:	Notes?
984:	Sifr:	yeah we have Thend, we've gotten characters, but where's the story gluing it together?
985:	Eleri:	Anyone doing RP, really needs to do it with respect for Cyan's story, and be ready for them to step in and cut off fan-run story if it starts conflicting with 'canon'
986:	Thend:	Yep, Vort. It's simple
987:	ireenquench:	the only thng that confuses peiple is confusing DRC with Cyan or Cate and Cyan
988:	tkwiggins:	Amen to Eleri's point.
989:	Hitana:	yes!
990:	amonre:	(totally OOC: can you increase the chat space at the top?)
991:	sundog:	OK
992:	Whilyam:	I urge passive IC/RP fan storylines.
993:	Kam Uraki:	By the way, there will be a test on all of this later ;P
994:	Vortmax:	amon: Only by making the text smaller in your KI
995:	Butch:	2 minutes on the question of what chagnes to Explorer communcation do you want to see given the mix of IC OOC and RP styles.
996:	sundog:	ha !
997:	Thend:	Nooo! I haven't been paying attention
998:	Hitana:	lol
999:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	I think when a "canon" storyline change appears, people run there anyway
1000:	amonre:	thanks
1001:	Butch:	I hope not Kam.
1002:	Hitana:	right!
1003:	Eleri:	most of the roleplay news hs been handled well, already. People see the event in cavern, and carry the tale
1004:	Migo:	we participate to the extent that we can
1005:	Butch:	2 mintues on the question of changes in communcation of game events given the mix of RP IC and OOC play styles
1006:	tkwiggins:	I'd encourage the liaisons to encourage the DRC to increase their chat among each other on the DRC board.
1007:	Eleri:	that's just how witnessing an event on the surface works
1008:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	yes, Eleri, and this event is one of those that will be carried on to explorers who couldn't be here
1009:	Thend:	Yes, tk, I agree
1010:	Dave Mac:	I'd encourage the DRC to update their dang website.
1011:	Vortmax:	Good idea tk
1012:	ireenquench:	Cyan desings the charactera, DRC, Cate, Wheely Yeesha, and any other whacko that should come along.... it is most important not to confuse DRC with Cyan and people have repeatedly done that, especially surrounding anythign DRCL related
1013:	Butch:	1 minute on the question of chagnes in explorer communication given the mix of IC OOC and RP play styles.
1014:	Mystlander:	I'm recording a full chatlog of this meeting, Sis... Howdy!
1015:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	but if Cate showed up.....THAT would become the real story
1016:	amonre:	dave mac: well... (OOC) cyan is very busy, which is why their site hasn't been updated a lot
1017:	Eleri:	DRC nag request noted
1018:	Vortmax:	Dave, they're working on it............. (we've heard that before...)
1019:	tkwiggins:	Not for the news or information flow of it, but to sell the ARG
1020:	Butch:	TIME
1021:	Panther (I'm on the surface, be back in a minute):
1022:	Thend:	And wipe the whole site from the ground up so we and the new explorers can start fresh
1023:	ireenquench:	In my pinion the majorit of confusion stems from that
1024:	weeKIly Reporter:	Everyone seems to always treat the DRC and story in a IC way as apposed to hey you live actor whats going to goiming up soon
1025:	Butch:	The next section kind of scares me right now.
1026:	Butch:	DRCL
1027:	Eleri:	ohnoes
1028:	Hitana:	lol
1029:	ireenquench laughs
1030:	amonre:	heh, yeah
1031:	Vortmax:	Forge ahead.
1032:	yogayoda:	what out
1033:	Gadren gulps
1034:	amonre:	I've just received message from Zardoz saying he has resigned as an UD
1035:	Butch:	Again, I said I did not want to discuss the termination or shortening of DRCL
1036:	Dave Mac:	Yes, Thend. I just joined a few weeks ago, and I was really disappointed when I found the DRC site to be so totally lame.
1037:	Migo:	yikes
1038:	Sifr gets himself some riot gear
1039:	Hitana:	btw what means the L?
1040:	Thend:	What's a UD?
1041:	amonre:	DRC Liaison
1042:	Eleri:	the DRCLs continue to discuss what our course of action is.
1043:	Kam Uraki breaks out the riot gear
1044:	Vortmax:	We can take it for 10 minutes
1045:	Ghaelen D'Lareh watches the liaisons brace themselves
1046:	amonre:	UD = unofficial dictator, which is the one who makes the rules and runs the elections
1047:	weeKIly Reporter 's tummy grumbels for he has not eaten breakfats nor lunch
1048:	amonre:	and that's me now
1049:	Thend:	Ah
1050:	Eleri:	beyond that shrug
1051:	Thend:	O.o
1052:	Butch:	The question is How can we better organize Explorers to vote at the end of the current term?
1053:	Hitana don't know much about liasion
1054:	Vortmax:	DRCL = DRC Liaisons. Ideally, they '***** information between you and the DRC
1055:	pirschen43:	New explorers don't really even have a way to know that the DRCLs even exist
1056:	Mystlander:	You're welcome...
1057:	Whilyam:	There needs to be announcements and directions given on all forums, in game, and primarily BY CYAN. Maybe even a newsletter saying such to all explorers.
1058:	Vortmax:	*pass
1059:	Nis'ah:	by putting it on the MOUL site
1060:	amonre:	firstly... have a job description... and then people will want to vote
1061:	pirschen43:	It took me a long time beofore i even heard of them
1062:	Sifr:	i think we could be told when, how, what they are?
1063:	Whilyam:	Cyan/DRC
1064:	weeKIly Reporter:	They could have they're own bevin? that help some...
1065:	Eleri:	Ireen did a great job of spreading the word about the last elections.
1066:	ireenquench:	Butch, I posted on a zillion sites.... about the election .... so that is not the issue
1067:	Thend:	In-Cavern, with a potential for also VOTING In-Cavern, as well
1068:	amonre:	I can't stress enough on the job description... if the DRC doesn't give one, then the community should come up with their own
1069:	Dave Mac:	You could make sure everyone knows what the DRCLs are/do. Make sure they know about the elections. I think information about the whole process is lacking.
1070:	tkwiggins:	Agree w/Whil on need for DRC (Cyan) to be proactive in urging explorers vote
1071:	Sifr:	we have meetings? we have liasons? we have liasons at meetings? we have elections? we have elections at meetings? we have elections at meetings for liasons?
1072:	Vortmax:	Get some information up in-game about them. PUt it on imagers, get it mentioned in the orientation meetings
1073:	Sifr:	the newbie cries of terror...
1074:	Dave Mac:	Also, a get out the vote campaign. Rock the Vote: Cavern style.
1075:	weeKIly Reporter:	How about mentioning them in Orrentations like the GoG
1076:	amonre:	Thend: I've talked about in-game voting to cyan, but they're way too busy to be able to do that
1077:	ireenquench:	I believe the DRC should appoint the Liaisons and come forward with a job definition
1078:	Whilyam:	Cyan needsto get out information. No two ways about it.
1079:	Dave Mac:	Perhaps a debate.
1080:	tkwiggins:	Pix of candidates on images if possible
1081:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	I agree Ireen
1082:	Whilyam:	ireen can only do so much.
1083:	Dave Mac:	Televised if possible.
1084:	Ruby O'Degee:	I agree Ireen
1085:	sundog:	vote by heek game ?
1086:	Eleri wants to note that the DRCLs have been trying to get some of these details worked on for 9 months now.
1087:	Butch:	the question is how can we better organize Explorers to vote in the election at the endo fo this term.
1088:	Dave Mac:	Yes!
1089:	Sifr:	televised! haha
1090:	Butch:	Less than 300 people voted in last election.
1091:	Whilyam:	I disagree. The Liaisons need to have explorers behind them too
1092:	Vortmax:	yes, ireen did fantastic work getting all the forums covered, and several discussed it in game.
1093:	Ghaelen D'Lareh feels for the liaisons
1094:	Eleri:	as Teryn said to me "It;s a two way street, and the DRC forgot their lane"
1095:	Hitana sitl does not understand that liasion thing
1096:	Thend:	too bad, amonre. And I think Zardoz was just doing the best he could with what was available, did a fine job IMO
1097:	Dave Mac:	Heek tourney and feats of strength!
1098:	Whilyam:	Otherwise they ARE just puppets of the DRC.
1099:	Nis'ah:	if the liaison's role is to further the story line then the DRC should appoint them
1100:	ireenquench:	Currently, they are not doing that so I think the DRCLs should all resign and we should demonstrate for the DRC to come forward with definitions and guildelines
1101:	tkwiggins:	lol @ Teryn's quote!
1102:	amonre:	is the site usable enough, you think?
1103:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	lol@Ireen
1104:	amonre:	Is it easy to use, easy to find, ... ?
1105:	pirschen43:	remember that themajority of players of MOUL never played UU and don't know DRCLs exist
1106:	Butch:	Nis'ah, to you really want to be spoonfed your community organization?
1107:	Vortmax:	ireen, but it's all in the explorers' hands.
1108:	tkwiggins:	Respectfully disagree that DRCLs should resign
1109:	Vortmax:	We must take control. We asked for representation for how long, and we finally got it.
1110:	tkwiggins:	Would send a different message than intended to the DRC
1111:	amonre:	considering UL is, uh, "live" now... encouraging people to vote in the game is going to be easier
1112:	Matthew Allen:	I agree with Ireen, a statement needs to be made to Cyan/DRC that if they want to keep us happy, then they should do more than just say "set up some DRCLs" then disappear
1113:	Hitana:	i want to say something, but can't because of not understanding lol
1114:	weeKIly Reporter:	i think it's a good idea it's be executed badly
1115:	Whilyam:	I agree wiht Matthew
1116:	Whilyam:	with*
1117:	Sifr:	yeah it has, GrayWolf's already resigned cause its been stressful for him
1118:	Thend:	Vault wipe for DRCsite, and as for the Liaison job description, perhaps stop waiting for word from aboe and be only pro-active, it may be that's what Cyan wanted in the first place, or thought might happen
1119:	ireenquench:	if Cyan isnt willin gto do more about this... we should refuse to play this flawed game that is more hurtful than helpful
1120:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	but if the liaisons are now DRCLiaisons, they are already doing the work FOR the DRC. What is the difference if the DRC just increase their own numbers by appointing "official" liaisons?
1121:	Butch:	5 minutes on the question of how to organzie the Explorers for the vote at the end of hte current term.
1122:	Erik (I'm on the surface, be back in a minute):
1123:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	at least if they were official, they would know what their jobs were
1124:	amonre:	yeah, we are a bit offtopic
1125:	Panther:	i went into the egg room and i couldent controll my self for 20 minuts.
1126:	Dave Mac:	I've figured out what's going on by spending a lot of time reading forum posts, but I think most new people are going to be incredibly confused about the whole DRC thing and even more confused when we throw in the Liasons.
1127:	Thend:	Between the DRC and the explorers, in my estimation, Ghaelen
1128:	Leonor:	I thought the liasons job was just to spread the word
1129:	sundog:	isnt this question kinda anti-thetical as covered in the original question on in-game organizations - in that they exist for their services and explorers can choose or not choose to take part
1130:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	keeping them in the dark just ties their hands too much
1131:	ireenquench:	other than that, since all of that is probably not going to happen.... we shul not hol another election unless a definition of the Liaisons duties is written down and part of the election rules
1132:	pirschen43:	how to get explorers to vote? There needs to be stuff in cavern regarding the laisons. Not just word of mouth or forums
1133:	Leonor:	Because it's not practical for the DRC to meet with the public all the time
1134:	pirschen43:	posters or something
1135:	amonre agrees with ireen
1136:	Whalyn:	Back to getting the vote out - can we use billboards like ones in the classroom to hold announcements and information on DRCLs?
1137:	Hitana:	exactly! i agree with ireen
1138:	Sifr:	lol, posters in the cavern might be fun
1139:	Vortmax:	That's what I'd like to see. I want things up in the Cavern.
1140:	Butch:	4 mintues on teh question of how to better organzie explorers for the election at the end of the term.
1141:	ireenquench:	no election with out written text on DRCL duties and competences
1142:	tkwiggins:	2nd vort
1143:	Vortmax:	Mentions in the orientation meetings. Notices on the classroom imager.
1144:	Matthew Allen:	I agree, I think the next vote should be boycotted unless Cyan or DRC give specific guidelines for the DRCLs and what Cyan/DRC is willing to do to work with them
1145:	Hitana:	yes!
1146:	Thend:	Maybe wait until the election can be brought fully In-Cavern, so as to include everybody, otherwise put a stop to elections
1147:	amonre:	well... posters and stuff won't help much, if the liaisons don't know what their job is
1148:	weeKIly Reporter imagins a poster thats "the DRC wants YOU!"
1149:	Migo:	I agree Irene, are the liaisons representatives of explorers, or voices or the DRC?
1150:	pirschen43:	don't worry about getting people to vote until they know that the group exists and what its point is
1151:	Hitana thinks the chat is to fast
1152:	ireenquench:	and since itmay take a long time to find a definition..... well then it will take time, i dont care
1153:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	good idea, Thend
1154:	Eleri:	I think the failure of the last election was due to complete apathy, because the process had been so nasty. No one cared to get involved in conflict.
1155:	Butch:	2 mintues on the question of how to better organzie the explorers for the next DRCL election.
1156:	sundog:	What I was wondering as well
1157:	Butch agrees that the chat is way faster than everyone can read
1158:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	a voting machine like the heek table -- interactive
1159:	Vortmax:	Hitana, there will be logs for later, and you can always statement on it on the forum.
1160:	ireenquench:	since we apparently all have different definitions in pur heads
1161:	Ruby O'Degee:	why hold elections for liasions/messengers if the story can ve delivered by anyone who sees it happen?
1162:	Hitana:	thx vort
1163:	Nis'ah:	better define their role in URU
1164:	amonre:	ghaelen: that'd be cool, but cyan can't do anything like that at the moment...
1165:	Blade Lakem:	And the DRC forums coninue to go up in flames, scaring more people away (I admit, I've been guilty of flames there myself)
1166:	Migo:	Ruby, exactly
1167:	Leonor:	Because the DRC rather meet with someone they know it's going to spread the story?
1168:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	no, amonre, but maybe in the future they could
1169:	Eleri:	If the community wants elections for Liaisons, have the Unelected Dictator start from scratch, and make it work
1170:	tkwiggins:	I think conflict in last election played a part in the apathy, but I think bigger reason was lack of publicity. The forums are too obscure for many players.
1171:	amonre:	yes
1172:	Vortmax:	Flat out, it's up to the community to define the role of the Liaisons. The DRC doesn't want to do it, so it's in your hands.
1173:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	if liaisons continue to be part of the story
1174:	Dave Mac:	DRC forums are freakin scary.
1175:	Thend:	Just passing of information Ruby, from DRC to explorers, and Explorers to DRC (who seem to busy to follow anything here themselves)
1176:	Butch:	1 mintue on teh question of how to better organize the explorers for the next election.
1177:	Kam Uraki:	Amen, Dave
1178:	sundog:	any explorer should be allowed to stand
1179:	Whilyam:	Liaisons also work the other way. They are needed.
1180:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	yeah, Dave, not much of that "respect" there
1181:	Vortmax:	Yes, talk about it more in the Cavern. That will make a serious improvement.
1182:	ireenquench:	i dont even wanat Liaisons because the concept is flawed like it's beem done and I think the DRC shoul just get their behinds in Cavern, we wll spread allright
1183:	Sifr:	but only if they are committed...
1184:	Leonor:	Maybe voting could be done live, in this room
1185:	Ruby O'Degee:	sort of like correspondents Thend?
1186:	Panther points
1187:	Sifr:	i mean, what if they leave and we don't see them?
1188:	Vortmax:	And if we get the word out in Cavern, I think more people will show interest.
1189:	Leonor:	People that want to vote for X candidate, all stand../
1190:	Whilyam:	DRC forums need to be moderated properly.
1191:	Hitana:	exactly!
1192:	Thend:	Ghaelen, the Heek tables aren't used that much anyway, just convert them lol
1193:	Butch:	TIME
1194:	ireenquench:	most people share information
1195:	amonre:	leonor: 200+ people in one hood? that'll be fun
1196:	Ghaelen D'Lareh nods and grins to Thend and says yeah!
1197:	Migo:	The DRC are making their own story? I'm confused
1198:	Butch:	The next question is focused on the Liaisons as an IC-Only group (Mixed is next)
1199:	Hitana:	because everyone is asking: "something new?" lol
1200:	Thend:	Yes, Ruby, buit for the DRC to receive concise info from us and goings-on here that they are too busy to pay attentuion to the way we do
1201:	Butch:	What questions shoule we be asking candidates for DRCL assuming they are only IC?
1202:	Ruby O'Degee:	right, they bring back information when they see it happen. That is how I heard about Cate
1203:	tkwiggins:	WHat Migo just said goes to the crux of all these issues.
1204:	tkwiggins:	Confusion
1205:	Panther laughs
1206:	Hitana:	well they shoudn't be too personal i think
1207:	Dave Mac:	I've got one! What is it that you do?
1208:	tkwiggins:	Confusion over the foundation of the Dni Restoration
1209:	Hitana:	lol
1210:	Butch:	The question is, assuming the DRCL are IC only, what should we be asking candidiates?
1211:	Matthew Allen:	What questions should we ask candidates? How about "Are you not going to take no for an answer when the DRC don't talk to you?"
1212:	Migo:	The DRC are an aside, so far , so beat me up now....
1213:	tkwiggins:	No Migo it's right on
1214:	Hitana:	lol matthew
1215:	Migo:	They present what they want
1216:	Migo:	we take it in or not
1217:	Vortmax:	That's a tough one. Really, we should be asking them about issues IC. How would they want to work with the DRC. What would they like out of the job.
1218:	Panther points
1219:	Vortmax:	Where they stand on various issues.
1220:	tkwiggins:	A lot of these issues, though front-and-center for us enthusiasts, are wayyy to esoteric for new players to grok
1221:	ireenquench:	assuming they are only IC I would ask; are you willing to serve the explorers or only thos people who want to spread information.... if the former is the case... how do you decide on what the explorers want... how can you even run for office with no definition of the job
1222:	Dave Mac:	To the DRCLs: Pretend I'm Cate. Can you justify for me your existance as a group?
1223:	Hitana:	i agree with vort
1224:	Migo:	if it works, the game grows, makes money....continues to live
1225:	Thend:	Well, if the DRCL candidates are only IC, then it follows the question would be what about the rest who may not be
1226:	Panther points
1227:	Blade Lakem:	Dave: That's a tough one over all
1228:	Hitana:	right to ireen
1229:	Butch:	The question is assuming Liaisons as an IC-only group, what should we be asking candidates for the position.
1230:	Dave Mac:	I know, that's why I asked it
1231:	Greypiffle F:	I thought that the Liaisions were a focus group for the DRC to have a buffer between themselves and the comunity - sort of a larger group that could be aproached by the comunity in general.
1232:	Panther points
1233:	Leonor:	It's obviously and IC group
1234:	Vortmax:	that's part of the idea Grey
1235:	Gadren:	Dave: Right now, I don't tihnk I cam
1236:	Dave Mac:	Good, an honest answer!
1237:	Vortmax:	Someone who can be around more often than the DRC, sharing info and taking questions/concerns back.
1238:	amonre:	the DRC is IC, so the liaisons should be IC too
1239:	tkwiggins:	I've always thought the DRCLs straddled IC and OOC, leaning more IC however
1240:	Thend:	ireen has good points, I'm just sold that IN THEORY the DRCL stuff is good, though in practice, because of the DRC/Cyan themselves, it hasn't reaally been so
1241:	Whilyam:	Got to go. Shorah
1242:	Hitana:	bye whil
1243:	Dave Mac:	Shorah, Whil.
1244:	amonre:	bye whil!
1245:	Matthew Allen:	Agreed with Thend.. the DRCLs are meaningless without the support of the DRC, and so far that support has been minimal
1246:	Greypiffle F:	bye will
1247:	Butch:	the question is assuming a strict IC focus, what questions should we be asking candidates for Liaison?
1248:	Sifr:	yeah, you hit the nail on the head there Thend
1249:	ireenquench:	I think live story is much more exiting.... the TH meeting might have served for D'mala and may serve as an occasional event.... other than that the DRCLs shoul not be part of the story....aside from their existance
1250:	Sifr:	the DRC are too distant
1251:	Gadren:	and because of some explorers, I hate to say -- we get our hands slapped when we try to make ourselves useful
1252:	Vortmax:	WHOEVER KEPS TRYING TO SHARE YOUR RELTO WITH ME, STOP IT.
1253:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	wow, butch, that's a long, drawn out issue
1254:	Sifr:	how can we get liasons with anyone to liase with?
1255:	Whalyn:	Vort, that's Panther.
1256:	Sifr:	*without
1257:	Sifr:	rather
1258:	Hitana:	lol sifr
1259:	amonre:	panther, please stop
1260:	Hitana:	good point!
1261:	Vortmax:	In regard to OOC players, it shouldn't be too hard to recast OOC concerns and questions in an IC light.
1262:	Migo:	exactly, Sifr
1263:	Ghaelen D'Lareh thinks it's time for Cyan to fix that Relto book problem
1264:	Butch:	5 minutes on the question assuming an IC focus what questions should we be asking candidates for Liaison?
1265:	ireenquench:	if he repeats on doing it call a Reseng
1266:	Vortmax:	I mean, on the part of the Liaisons.
1267:	Vortmax:	They should be able to translate from IC to OOC and back.
1268:	Whalyn:	Cut it out panather!!!!
1269:	Matthew Allen:	How about we call a ResEng about coming over here anyway? I'd LOVE to hear what they have to say about DRCLs..
1270:	Migo:	my question to the Liaison, how do you represent me?
1271:	tkwiggins:	IMO the best way to cast DRCLs as very IC is to have the DRC appoint them. Though drawn form the player community, the DRCLs could then show up as new characters -- RPers, in essence.
1272:	Hitana:	well something so that we know, what they want to do and so on...
1273:	Eleri:	contacting reseng
1274:	tkwiggins:	I might help reduce conflict...
1275:	Vortmax:	Thanks Eleri
1276:	Hitana:	i agree with tk
1277:	Nis'ah:	yep I agree with tkwiggins
1278:	weeKIly Reporter:	Sounds good
1279:	Butch:	3 minutes on t he question of what questions should we be asking candidates for DRCL assuming IC-only
1280:	Thend:	One thing is the content, and the organizational structure with which that content is presented to the DRC, it may be that they might respond in kind with more thoughtful and deeper answers themselves. However, I cannot statement on what or how things progress with tese matters, and especially don't want to speak/assume anything for or about the Liaisons, which I back
1281:	tkwiggins:	It might also help diffuse the "power paranoia" issue....
1282:	Gadren:	i agree...explorers voting for them simply implies representation, and then we become public servants who have to be chained to a vocal and destructive minority
1283:	Sifr nods his head
1284:	Vortmax:	Yeah, trust me, there's NO power in this job. I kinda wish there was, so we could actually get the DRC to do some things...
1285:	Leonor:	I don't understand all the complication around this. The Liasons only serve to spread messages from the DRC. The explorers should vote them, exactly because if the DRC appoints people, it would be an elite. People should vote in cavern, in this room, by standing. It would be simple to do. Events should get off the forums and come to the cavern.
1286:	Dave Mac:	What you need more than power is access.
1287:	Butch:	2 mintues on the question of what questions should we be asking candidates for an IC-only DRCL
1288:	Migo:	again, will the liaison, represent me, or funnel info from the DRC?
1289:	Hitana:	right leonor!
1290:	Migo:	won't vote till I know that
1291:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	yes, DAve, because access empowers
1292:	Thend:	Leonor, from the DRC and TO the DRC
1293:	Leonor:	Yes, Thend.
1294:	Sifr:	so what you're saying, is the liasons should be able to get to Kirel and the DRC hoods so they can chat to someone if the need arises?
1295:	Vortmax:	Migo: That's up to the community to decide.
1296:	ireenquench:	Well, since i feel very strongly about logs being published.... I would alk them if they would publish all logs of information put forward by "information holders" (edit out PMs received by other parties).... and maybe provide them with a delay of 10 days
1297:	pirschen43:	Leonor, that doesn't scale, and requires everyone who wants to vote to be present at a specific time
1298:	Butch:	1 minute on the question of questions to ask IC-only DRCL.
1299:	Migo:	ireen, agreed
1300:	Butch:	candidates for DRCL, that is.
1301:	Hitana:	good point ireen
1302:	tkwiggins:	Having the DRCLs be known explorers has updisdes and downsides. One downside is they're vulnerable to grief from a small but highly vocal minority on the forums.
1303:	Leonor:	No it doesn'y pirschen
1304:	Dave Mac:	Problem is, when the DRC comes to any public place, they get bumrushed, the DRCLs can get more information by meeting with the DRC in private.
1305:	Leonor:	It could be done during a day, several times, one avatar, one vote
1306:	Thend:	Any vote could easily be spread over a few days
1307:	Hitana:	exactly dave
1308:	ireenquench:	but Dave second hand information is totally boring
1309:	Migo:	Is the liaison going to tell me what they think I should know, or what is up? altogether?
1310:	sundog:	agreed= I (my opinion only) is that people are feeling excluded and that needs to change , through enabling participation - in the RW thats how people are empowered
1311:	Dave Mac:	But then I could just make a new avvie every 5 minutes and vote all day long.
1312:	Hitana:	lol ireen
1313:	Butch:	TIME
1314:	tkwiggins:	I'm not sure if what new explorers want is information per se... or a story experience that increases the immersion of the overall Uru story
1315:	pirschen43:	it woul dnee dto be spread over a week or something, like a machine we go and vote at, not by sitting or standing in a group such as this
1316:	Dave Mac:	Not if it's good information.
1317:	Vortmax:	ireen, I don't know about you, but I'd rather have secondhand info than none at all
1318:	Dave Mac:	Amen, vot.
1319:	Dave Mac:	*vort
1320:	Hitana:	right vort!
1321:	tkwiggins:	I remember the secondhand info we all got in nov-dec '03 was very exciting
1322:	Leonor:	You could do that in forums too Dave, I doubt many people will want to boycott
1323:	Thend:	ireen, second hand info is the way of life and communication between people face-to-face
1324:	Mystlander taps kami on shoulder and hands her a bowl of chilli...
1325:	ireenquench:	if I get a log later I am happy
1326:	Butch:	Next question: The DRCL have had to mix IC and OOC, so what questions should we be asking DRCL candidates for a mixed IC OOC role?
1327:	Hitana has learned to live with second hand infos
1328:	tkwiggins:	it was disseminated informally, second hand, heresay... the way you'd get the news in a small town
1329:	Dave Mac:	I'm going to die of lag. I'm not sure how, but I bet it's fatal.
1330:	Thend:	ireen is log-happy alright lol
1331:	Matthew Allen:	OOC: I don't think the DRC/Cyan are in a position to DICTATE TERMS on release of information, there will come a point where all of us are PAYING to be here, therefore WE should be dictating the information flow
1332:	Leonor:	I don't understand the point of a mixed IC OOC role.
1333:	Vortmax laughs at Dave
1334:	Migo:	They either hand out the info, or not
1335:	Leonor:	It's either IC and we deal with the DRC or OOC and we deal with Cyan
1336:	Vortmax:	OOC would allow the Liaisons to interact with Cyan/GameTap as well as with the DRC/Cate
1337:	Migo:	I get informed, or not
1338:	Butch:	the question is, assuming that the DRCL are not going to stay IC, but will have an additional OOC role, what questions should we be asking candidates.
1339:	weeKIly Reporter:	Maybe a IC role for giveing info from DRC and OOC role for give info TO DRC
1340:	Eleri:	when we were helping Cyan get both IC and OOC news out about the return of live, we had to flex
1341:	Sifr:	personally, whoever it is, we'd like to be told
1342:	Dave Mac:	Well, they obviously have to be IC with the DRC, but they can be more OOC with the explorers.
1343:	Hitana cannot go away from the pc for min because its very interesting!
1344:	ireenquench:	Question for IC /OOC liaisons....Do you believe you are minions of Cyan.... interpret what you think Cyan wants... act on their behalf.... and this make decisions based on your interpretation on that.... ?
1345:	Leonor:	Cyan didn't request Liasons. They have the means to communicate to everyone in game if they want.
1346:	Migo:	if the experience is less than fun.....folks won't "play"
1347:	Hitana:	yep
1348:	Butch:	the question is what questions should we be asking candidates for DECL assuming a mixed IC/OOC role.
1349:	Vortmax:	Exactly Migo. It's why GrayWolf left. He wasn't having fun anymore.
1350:	tkwiggins:	@ Leonor, didn't Marie make the request for Liaisons on the DRC board back in Feb 06?
1351:	Ruby O'Degee:	Hi there
1352:	Gadren:	my issues with the DRC aren't an IC thing -- i truly think that Cyan dropped the ball on this one
1353:	Thend:	Again, this seems to be related to the IC/OOC/RP question. What to ask? How will you organize info that you present to the DRC for their better understanding of what goes on In-Cavern?
1354:	Leonor:	Marie is DRC, not Cyan
1355:	tkwiggins:	sadly agree w/Gad
1356:	Eleri:	I think these are very important things to be defining, if the community plans on continuing elections
1357:	Mystlander:	The big push for Liaisons came from The Great Tree!
1358:	Vortmax:	Ask them how they'd like to work with Cyan. What they think could be done
1359:	weeKIly Reporter:	Well it was mailnt the fact theat he had that and GoG and he didn't not want to short either our
1360:	Greypiffle F:	buch - I think you should work on a schedule baise - ask people if they can sign up for certain TIMES to be in cavern to talk with people.
1361:	Matthew Allen:	Agreed, I don't think the problem is with the DRCLs, I think the problem is with Cyan/DRC here
1362:	Gadren:	getting snubbed by the DRC for long periods of time is one thing, but when it's Cyan and the company we love is not paying attention to us... it hurts
1363:	Butch:	the question is assuming DRCL are a mix of IC and OOC roles, what questions should we be asking candidates before the next election?
1364:	Leonor:	I really don't understand that kind of attitude, Gadren, to be honest.
1365:	Eleri:	Bluntly, Gadren is right. Very little of the stress the Liaisons were experiencing ws IC
1366:	Leonor:	Cyan should not be in the game at all.
1367:	Whalyn:	This may be totally out of line... but finding out how much technical knowledge a laison candidate has would be imporant to me.
1368:	Vortmax:	Good question, Whalyn
1369:	Sifr:	I suppose that because they are busy trying to help us, we feel neglected when we don't see them, and they might forget why they are doing it as well...
1370:	Butch:	5 minutes on the question of assuming a mix of IC and OOC roles what questions should we be asking candidates for DRCL.
1371:	Eleri:	Take, for expample, the lack of information about the Liaisons in the ResEng Orientations.
1372:	Ghaelen D'Lareh thinks the whole liaison request by the DRC was to get people to the DRC forums, and that the real problem was the lack of moderation by those same DRC members during the election process
1373:	tkwiggins:	If Cyan is understaffed to invest time in DRC RP, it's understandable given the RL requirements they're under... but they should try to write that into the story, not leave the DRCLs hanging in the wind.
1374:	Greypiffle F:	canditates should be asked if they are willing to schedule time to be in the cavern for thier roles
1375:	Hitana:	what is your programm? would be a good question
1376:	Sifr:	personally i'm happy with Cyan and the DRC, as long as the story is compelling, and the community warm, i'll be here
1377:	Eleri:	Ultimately, the decision to have that information included lay with Cyan
1378:	ireenquench:	yup.... my main issues are with Cyan's design of the DRCL stuff.... they dropped a bomb and are letting it explode over and over and over, its just poor design.... I think they are pretty clueless about social dymamics if they let this run any further.... they designed it, they better take care of it.... any DRCLs should telly Cyan: sorry guys, it doesnt work.... give us structure and guidance
1379:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	are there liaisons who are not in the Cavern?
1380:	Eleri:	Nope, we all take time to be down here
1381:	Hitana:	right ieen
1382:	Vortmax:	Grey, I like that question too
1383:	Hitana:	ireen this is
1384:	Eleri:	spontaniously, and for scheduled events
1385:	Butch:	the issue on the floor is what questions should we be asking candidates for DRCL given a mix of IC and OOC roles.
1386:	Matthew Allen:	I think all the DRCLs should walk of the next meeting with Cate to make a statement to the powers that be.. this game of DRCL politics is not fun
1387:	Migo:	this is why I am confused about this, Cyan is not in the game??
1388:	Gadren:	it feels like Cyan wants to play this IC game with us, and when we have real grievancese, they give us more DRC meetings and more IC play...we don't want more stories and puppet shows -- we want to get things fixed
1389:	Matthew Allen:	*walk out of
1390:	Thend:	Cyan might've assumed the role would've taken off in a creative, community-like direction, like many other Cavern activities/groups, instead of the waiting for DRC information to be doled out that it became, especially due to the messy, over-complicated election 'discussions'
1391:	Migo:	Cyan is the game
1392:	tkwiggins:	What about the long view tho... does everyone think that most explorers, especially new ones, understand the DRC storyline in the first place, much less the (to them) subleties of DRCL roles, elections, forums, etc.?
1393:	Hitana:	lol
1394:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	well said Gadren
1395:	amonre:	Migo: Cyan isn't, at least not IC... when you're playing IC, cyan doesn't exist, uru is real, the drc is real, etc
1396:	Vortmax:	How about how the Liaisons would like to interact with the DRC and Cyan
1397:	amonre:	but obviously, OOC, Uru is a game made by Cyan
1398:	Leonor:	I think this whole "Cyan doesn't love us" thing is rather silly. I'm off.
1399:	ireenquench:	yeah... new people dont undertand any of this.... tbhis puts new people off
1400:	Vortmax:	Ask that.
1401:	Butch:	3 mintutes on the question of what questions should we ask candidates for DRCL in the next election, assuming IC and OOC roles.
1402:	Eleri:	tk, exactly, and the Ls could have been a way to bridge that knowledge gap
1403:	Migo:	well, then they have someone representing their story?
1404:	Dave Mac:	Well, Cyan is real weather or not your IC or OOC, they just have a different role.
1405:	Sifr:	Cyan does exist in the game doesn't it? they're the ones IC who published the games based on the journals?
1406:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	I think Cyan loves their fans. The DRC (as a part of the story) don't care so much
1407:	tkwiggins:	I think they still can El
1408:	Thend:	Leonor, this is only an open discussion of stuff
1409:	Matthew Allen:	To respond to Butch's question: "Why should be vote?"
1410:	ireenquench:	if I were new and stumbled into the DRC Liaison forums.... I'd think : whackos pretending fake democracy and not even understanding its fake.... and walk out
1411:	Gadren:	like the whole meeting on the 19th ... if we had been warned in advance about it all by Cyan, we could have done something to encourage more people to be in the Cavern...and when the DRC moved the meeting to another hood, they didn't tell us except for a "spread the word" message
1412:	amonre:	well... yes... cyan is real, but entirely differently real
1413:	Sifr:	i mean, Josh is in the cavern, as a Cyanist, not a DRC member. he's ooc
1414:	Vortmax:	Hey, any more ideas for questions to ask OOC Liaison candidates?
1415:	tkwiggins:	(Way OOC - Rand's gotta assign some manhours to it.
1416:	Butch:	2 mintues on the question of what question we should be asking, assuming a mix of IC and OOC roles, candidates for Liaison.
1417:	Lorri (I'm on the surface, be back in a minute):
1418:	Sifr:	lol we're getting off the point... aren't we?
1419:	pirschen43:	That, or wer're getting to the point
1420:	Butch:	The conversation is more imortant that the point, Sifr
1421:	Vortmax:	Maybe who they'd like to see at OOC Town Hall meetings. LIke I'd love to have one with Tim Larkin.
1422:	Eleri:	I like to know what they think of the game, and the story
1423:	Dave Mac:	I met Tim, he's awesome.
1424:	Sifr:	yeah, i just thought i'd be penalised if i kept babbling on...
1425:	Butch:	1 minute on the question of questinos for IC and OOC DRCL
1426:	Greypiffle F:	good one eleri
1427:	Eleri:	Oh, I have asked Tim so many times! The goober doesn't think anyone wants to hear from him
1428:	Butch:	TIME
1429:	Nis'ah:	what they think their role should be
1430:	ireenquench:	Question for candidates: "Will you tell players and explorers you work for them, while in truth you are working only for thos having to share information, this the DRC Cyan, or granted any explorer group"
1431:	Hitana:	lol
1432:	Vortmax:	I know
1433:	Thend:	As a followup to Eleri's, what did Cyan intend with this whole Liaison thing they introduced?
1434:	Hitana:	good one ireen!
1435:	Migo:	ditto, ireen
1436:	Butch:	Next question may be just a rewording of the fisrt.
1437:	Hitana:	okay
1438:	Vortmax starts to laugh
1439:	Hitana:	lol
1440:	Butch:	How can we get more Explorers invovled in the next election, as candidates, voters and anything else that an election needs?
1441:	Butch:	this is more than just Advertise
1442:	Hitana:	tell them lol
1443:	Eleri:	bribery?
1444:	Eleri:
1445:	ireenquench:	Talk about it in the Cavern.
1446:	Vortmax:	Again, information spread is key. Ireen did a great job covering the forums, but we need more spread in the Cavern
1447:	amonre:	"win one month free uru!"
1448:	Sifr:	tell them everything in a friendly and not too talk-down too sort of way
1449:	Migo:	define the roles, expectations, purpose
1450:	Migo:	bribery is good
1451:	Nis'ah:	tell them exactly what they are voting for
1452:	Hitana:	yes motuh to mouth lol
1453:	Greypiffle F:	let people know that if they don't vote, they have no right to complain about the results!!!!
1454:	Matthew Allen:	I'm not convinced that explorers should be involved in the next election still
1455:	Whalyn:	As candidates? Maybe show them that there's something there that needs to be done.
1456:	amonre:	yeah I think that's just a rewording
1457:	pirschen43:	when wuold the next elections be?
1458:	Vortmax:	We need to define the role, explain why it's important, and let people know they have a chance to make a difference in the Cavern
1459:	weeKIly Reporter:	So there is going to be another voting for DRCL?
1460:	ireenquench:	try to get a team together posting on forums, but most important, repetedly tell others in the cavern, explain how you see it
1461:	Hitana:	exactly vort!
1462:	Gadren:	regardless of if there are new elections, or if they end up being appointed in the future...people need to know that the liaisons exist
1463:	Sifr:	Vote! (or you'll be locked in Relto as political deviants)
1464:	Butch:	the question on the floor is how do we engage more Explorers in the next Election for DRCL, as candidates, voters and organizers.
1465:	Migo helping Reporter take notes
1466:	Vortmax:	In theory, the next election shoudl be in April
1467:	Gadren:	most people in the cavern don't know
1468:	amonre:	pirschen: last one was in october, next one will be in april, but we might have early elections
1469:	Greypiffle F:	Twi-lite says that we need to post information about the elections on the imagers - I say we need to have the server admins post it on the classroom imagers!
1470:	weeKIly Reporter:	Hmm..this could be a good opertunity for me....
1471:	Gadren:	i have to say, it was disheartening to have the GoG and the ResEngs on the classroom imagers, but no mention of the liaisons anywhere -- not on imagers or in ResEng orientations
1472:	ireenquench:	when you tell others in cavern about the DRCLs and elections... make sure you add this is your interpretytion and not factual
1473:	Vortmax:	Agreed wholeheartedly Grey
1474:	amonre:	but there's been some trouble
1475:	pirschen43:	If the elections are done via an in-game mechanism, on a given date/date span, get it on the "in game events" page on urulive.com
1476:	Thend:	In-Cavern spreading of information and Town Halls to orientate folks to the simple procedure of 'Just Vote for who you want in'. Though, only if everything can be In-Cavern.
1477:	amonre:	definitely
1478:	Sifr:	i've been here since '04 and i still don't have a clue whats going on half the time... laughs
1479:	Whalyn:	If we're going to start pulling "early elections" with every change in the Cavern, most of the gread candidates probably just won't be bothered.
1480:	pirschen43:	if i'ts done via out-of-game mechanism, eg voting at a web site, get it ont eh "out of game events"
1481:	Sifr:	some of us don't pay that much attention
1482:	Sifr:	need it spelt out
1483:	Hitana:	to the voters...make adverts, to the canidates...someone has to tell them what the tasks are an so on...
1484:	Vortmax:	Good ideas pirschen
1485:	Blade Lakem:	Heh Sifr - most of us heavily ivolved arent sure yet
1486:	sundog:	it'll be great for the in-game media - u can do interviews , Cavern 360 with ....
1487:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	lol
1488:	amonre still thinks that the DRC Liaison jobs will have to be clearly defined before the next election though
1489:	Migo:	the answer to this question, follows from the previous...
1490:	Butch:	5 minutes on the question of how we can get more Explorers involved with the next election as candidates, voters and organziers.
1491:	Vortmax:	I agree, amon
1492:	pirschen43:	oOC, urulive.com is the main source of info for MOUL, getting as much on there as possible will reach the most people
1493:	ireenquench:	get the candidates to speak about how they see the job and what they want to do, get the candidates in cavern
1494:	Nis'ah:	I agree with amonre
1495:	Hitana:	to the organizers...ask someone for help lol
1496:	weeKIly Reporter:	We could possibly give them a shirt or something for voting
1497:	Hitana:	lol
1498:	Vortmax:	Before anything, we need a clear definition of the job before the next election. And that is entirely up to the community.
1499:	Blade Lakem:	the liaisons have to matter for the explorers to care, no matter how they are selected. If people care, they will vote, listen whatever
1500:	Sifr:	so you reckon, until we can get the DRC, Cyan, Father Christmas, whoever... to agree on what we're doing, we should not have an election?
1501:	Thend:	'Officially' run, not because those, like Zardoz didn't do a good job, but to lessen the debate hopefully as to everyone's motivations or perceived power taking
1502:	ireenquench:	I refuse to help with any future election should there be no clear definition of the job and i encourage others to refuse that as well
1503:	LegWer:	I do not adree! yse this place as a voting place
1504:	Thend:	good idea Reporter
1505:	mpohlman:	Cant we just play the game?
1506:	amonre:	Thend, why do you think Zardoz didn't do a good job?
1507:	tkwiggins:	I suspect any explorer-conceived and explorer-run organization will tend to attract mostly hard-core or longtime fans. To make it compelling to the majority (and especially to new fans), it'd have to be staged by the DRC, and have some sort of connection to the overarching story of the Restoration. Otherwise it's sort of a disconnect with the things that attracted new players to the game in the first place.
1508:	amonre:	Thend, I am open for suggestions...
1509:	Migo:	you will get the advertising and organization around voting, if the roles are defined and accepted as part to the storyline that can change things
1510:	Dave Mac:	My friend Mike here is new and shy. I tried to explain to him what we're doing here, and he said "I just want to play the game." Think about that.
1511:	Vortmax:	There are major logistics problems with voting and in-game
1512:	Whalyn hopes somebody has a log of all this....
1513:	kami:	like implying you guys should resign...but he has disguised this in a question forum
1514:	amonre:	It is easy to say "X did a bad job" but it's better to say why you think X did a bad job
1515:	tkwiggins:	That's a key point that Dave Mac just made.
1516:	Vortmax:	Dave, agreed. There are some who just want to play, and we should let them play!
1517:	LegWer:	I do not want to read on a web siste to vote in a game
1518:	amonre nods his head
1519:	Dave Mac:	I didn't make it, mpohlman (Mike) just did.
1520:	Sifr:	that really is, we're in a game, we shouldn't get too over our heads in the logistics
1521:	Hitana:	summary: we need more information about the next election and so on. then we will do everything to get more ppl involved
1522:	sundog nods his head
1523:	Butch:	3 minutes on the question of how do we enage more exp[lorers in the next election as candidates voters and organziers and whatever else an election needs
1524:	Thend:	I understand amonre, just an official thing would be attract more explorers who want to be involved with the 'story', as was said, plus make it an -in-game' event, and less sectionalized
1525:	amonre:	oh, and the old UruChoice site should somehow be taken offline, perhaps
1526:	Vortmax:	And yes, the Liaison job has to matter to the xplorers, or nbody will vote
1527:	ireenquench:	we need to ask Cyan to answer once and for all if they want to define the jobs or we should.
1528:	Migo:	critical information, does it really matter, in the course of things
1529:	weeKIly Reporter:	and I can always advertise it within my Newsletter...
1530:	Hitana:	yes
1531:	Sifr:	thats a good idea
1532:	Nis'ah:	yup ireen
1533:	weeKIly Reporter:	Or better yet the DRC can
1534:	tkwiggins:	Earlier someone suggested that the voting should happen in-game. That would make it much more immersive and compelling. (How to avoid bogus avvies stuffing the ballot box, I am clueless about)
1535:	Sifr:	a better idea!
1536:	weeKIly Reporter:	Since they can send to EVERYONE
1537:	ireenquench:	New players should at least know that, if its defined and controled by cyan or not.
1538:	Sifr:	let us poke them until they can get in gear...
1539:	Migo:	I think explorers would vote if they believed they were voting for a real voice
1540:	Butch:	2 minutes on how do we ENGAGE more explorers as candidates, voters and interested interests in the next DRCL election.
1541:	Hitana:	but what about ppl not being able to be there for election?
1542:	Thend:	i agree with ireen, Cyan must speak up, In-Cavern (Town Hall or something) to lay out the terms of the job for us
1543:	amonre:	well, considering the DRC doesn't seem to care a lot at the moment... I doubt havin gthe DRC tell people to vote... will work well
1544:	Hitana:	right thend, or better ireen
1545:	weeKIly Reporter:	True
1546:	LegWer:	Why not yse the Library as a voting place? Where U can read all Q
1547:	Vortmax:	Thend, but what if they want us to define the terms of the job?
1548:	tkwiggins:	RL or in-cavern, I think history shows that people get out & vote only when they feel there's something compelling to them... connecting with them... to vote about.
1549:	Whalyn:	Hitana, that happens in RL too. They'll just have to get over it and vote the next time.
1550:	amonre:	the next elections will not be in the game
1551:	Thend:	Then, Vort, we are in trouble lol
1552:	Migo:	If we are only to 'recieve' the story, or make the 'story', big difference
1553:	Hitana:	lol whalyn
1554:	Butch:	1 minute on the question of how to get more Explorers involved with the next DRCL election as candidates, voters and organizers
1555:	Butch:	TIME
1556:	Dave Mac:	Bye everyone. I'm going to PLAY THE DANG GAME!
1557:	Hitana:	perhaps election should be like poll, than others who haven't had the time can elect to...
1558:	Migo:	I would be glad to help GOTV if it was for true representation
1559:	ireenquench:	yup... so if an election happens... it needs to be tied to "this affects you all" ... which unfortunately is tied to the problems of who defines it , how much it affects etc.
1560:	Butch:	That's the end of the questions, but we still have roundtable.
1561:	Vortmax:	See ya Dave
1562:	amonre:	bye dave, have fun
1563:	Thend:	Vort, us defining the terms of the job goes right to what has been discussed here about who is in charge of an organization, if it was official, no question
1564:	Hitana:	bye dave
1565:	Sifr:	see you Dave
1566:	Gadren:	well, i have other meetings to go to -- see ya
1567:	Sifr:	i'm off as well, going to make some dinner
1568:	Hitana:	bye sirf
1569:	Butch:	For round table I was going to call names in my KI list and give that person a chance to make a short statement.
1570:	amonre:	bye sifr!
1571:	mpohlman (I'm on the surface, be back in a minute):
1572:	Sifr:	see you, have a nice meeting
1573:	Sifr waves
1574:	Hitana:	sifr this is
1575:	Migo:	Very nice meeting Butch, thank you very much
1576:	sundog:	bye gadren
1577:	Butch:	I'm going to start at the bottom of my age list.
1578:	Thend waves
1579:	Tweek:	screaming about playing the damn game is counter productive to whats being discussed..if you have no interest in liaisons then why be in a disscussion about them?
1580:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	bye gadren
1581:	Vortmax:	I'd love to say a bit
1582:	amonre:	I admit I haven't thought of any statements for the round table
1583:	Butch:	Dan'ni.
1584:	Whalyn:	Strictly IC, the elections may not matter one bit. The DRC is not a democracy - it's a business. And it will work with or against whomever it perceives to be in a position to further the business.
1585:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	ummm, what happened to respect?
1586:	Thend:	Big surprise Vort lol
1587:	Butch:	Please say pass if you do not want to say anything.
1588:	Vortmax starts to laugh
1589:	amonre:	dan'ni is here?
1590:	amonre:	far away perhaps
1591:	Butch:	Gabi
1592:	Hitana:	lol
1593:	From Vortmax:	are you using /shout?
1594:	To Vortmax:	yes
1595:	From Vortmax:	Okay
1596:	Butch:	Tweek
1597:	Butch:	Serena
1598:	Butch:	Marrim
1599:	Butch:	Kam Uraki
1600:	Butch:	Prym
1601:	Vortmax:	Nobody has anything to say?
1602:	Hitana:	lol vort
1603:	Butch:	Prometheus
1604:	Butch:	Jinglish
1605:	Butch:	Whayln
1606:	Whalyn:	I'd like to find out what - if anything - is operational against non-respective behavior in the Cavern.
1607:	Whalyn:	Such as today's episode.
1608:	Vortmax:	Human nature.
1609:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	I'm afraid I've lost the question, sorry
1610:	Jinglish:	That's good
1611:	amonre:	Ghaelen, there's no question... just say a one-line statement
1612:	Butch:	Migo anything for Roundtable (open) discussion
1613:	Migo:	This was a good experience for me, lots of info. I'd be interested is seeing how the explorers can be represented in a truly story way
1614:	Jinglish:	Agree with that
1615:	Butch:	Ghaelen D'Laurh any thing for roundtable
1616:	Butch:	Mila anything you would like to say
1617:	Prometheus:	Even though I've been following Uru from the beginning, I don't know hardly anything about the governmental system you have set-up here. Word needs to get out.
1618:	Butch:	Junee anything you would like to say to say
1619:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	how can we interact in such a way as to help everyone understand what a phenomenon this Cavern really is?
1620:	Butch:	tkwiggins, would you like to make a statement?
1621:	Junee:	I just got here I have no idea what you've been talking about
1622:	Hitana:	good one ghaelen!
1623:	tkwiggins:	I think what's gotten lost in the last 6 months or so is the story-center of the game. By that I don't mean storIES, I mean the overarching Alternate Reality of an archaeological dig beneath the desert. The unearthing of a lost civilization. And all the excitement that goes with it. I don't think it's anyone's fault, but the result of Cyan having to focus a relatively small staff on the bigger issue of physically getting the game launched. As a result we've been sort of drifting, IMO.
1624:	Jinglish:	True
1625:	Butch:	ArthurFrayn, would you like to say anything?
1626:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	hey, tk, I think you just addressed my question! lol
1627:	ArthurFrayn:	Pass
1628:	Migo:	good point tk
1629:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	very well said
1630:	Butch:	J'iim do you have anything for roundtable?
1631:	J'iim:	No TY anyway, Butch
1632:	Butch:	Hitana, would you like to make a statement?
1633:	Butch:	RayRay, would you like to make a statement?
1634:	Hitana:	I'm just curious what you will do after this with our statements butch
1635:	Butch:	pirschen43 do you have anything you would like to say.
1636:	RayRay:	Sorry, I just walked in, not right now thank you
1637:	Butch:	It is in the chat log, this is more a way of anyone just saying what they want about anything on or off the agenda
1638:	pirschen43:	just want to say thanks for taking the time to put this together, and for scheduling it on the weekend so taht more people could make it
1639:	Ural:	Need a recap before i add anything..
1640:	Butch:	jimmyleg, would you like to add anything?
1641:	jimmyleg:	There is plenty of story, old and new, for independent adventurers in the cavern. personally, i like the tedious political arguments as well as the fresh ideas for new political structure. some independents, however, will be withdrawing from it, and i see a large pool of folks assembling as a desired resource for either the DRC, the Yeeshites, or another party. because there is such a small amount of physical adventure right now, a lot of us are concentrating on politics. thanks, butch.
1642:	LegWer:	Would it be possible to have a "butch" book to read, and than vote... mybe deside what to do next?
1643:	Migo:	second that, pirschen
1644:	Butch:	WeeKIly Reporter do you have anything to add?
1645:	weeKIly Reporter:	I know this may not be the best time but since much of the discussion was about informing people I want people to know that that this is why we started "The WeeKIly" Newsletter and I hope that it becomes a succes in doing so.
1646:	Migo cheers
1647:	Butch:	sundog, do you want to make a statement?
1648:	sundog:	will there be a follow on meeting to this one ? , it feels like an important step was taken tday i'd like to see more - thanks to butch for organizing this
1649:	Hitana:	okay but has it a sense? will there be changes?
1650:	Butch:	sundo, if there is enough interest and maybe some help, there will be a follow up.
1651:	sundog:	thnx
1652:	Butch:	But as I was acting out of my interest as an explorer, anyone can take this and carry it in the way they best see fit.
1653:	Hitana:	lol
1654:	Butch:	to quote a Liaison, Information wants to be free.
1655:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	lol
1656:	Jinglish:	So how will this information get presented? Via the Liasons?
1657:	Butch:	Nis'ah, would you like to make a statement
1658:	Serena (I'm on the surface, be back in a minute):
1659:	Nis'ah:	Thanks for your hard work here Butch
1660:	Hitana thanks butch
1661:	Butch:	Jinglish: This was not a liaison meeting, so it's on me to get this information out.
1662:	Jinglish:	Thanks!
1663:	Butch:	LegWer, would you like to make a statement.
1664:	Hitana:	will the drc get an information about this so that they see our opinion?
1665:	LegWer:	No not at this time
1666:	Butch:	Hitana: I'm posting this at DRCsite, so I hope so.
1667:	pirschen43:	The OOC respolse to that Jinglish & Hitana is that surely people at CYan will read the chat log of this that gets posted
1668:	Hitana:	good, thank you butch
1669:	Butch:	Vortmax, do you have anything for roundtable.
1670:	Vortmax:	Call me a dreamer, but I really think the community has power here. I think the Liaisons and other organizing could be really good for us. If we could only make use of them, things could improve. So I encourage you all to get involved. Ignore any who just have negative things to say without making suggestions. Put forth your ideas, and make use of things in place before you lose this opportunity. This is entirely in our hands. Do something.
1671:	Jinglish:	Right
1672:	Butch:	amonre, would you like to make a statement?
1673:	amonre:	This was a great meeting -- I hope these kinds of meetings will happen regularly
1674:	Hitana:	how do you came to your questions butch?
1675:	Butch:	ireen, would you like to say anything.
1676:	LegWer:	I'v asked a few q but no response as I'v seen
1677:	amonre:	As for the liaisons -- they have a great latent power.
1678:	Mila:	I am not sure about alIt seems that story is bIf there is a government being formed, I wonder then if the cavern is a state. Perhaps the fact that the cavern is a place of massive archaeological collaboration for an entire ancient civilizatio
1679:	ireenquench:	I agree with tk... story is the most important thing.... and so far the DRCL stuff has worsened the story, not bettered it, thus we can do without them... Cyan should come up with better ways of integrating people in story.... and we should all be equal in that. On equal grounds we all shape the story.
1680:	Mila:	oops, my bad...
1681:	Butch:	Hitana: I sat and though about what would cause meaningful discussion.
1682:	Butch:	Then, anything for roundtable?
1683:	Butch:	Hitana: I guessed.
1684:	Hitana:	yes this were really good questions i think
1685:	Butch:	Did I miss anyone who would like to make a statement before the meeting is closed?
1686:	Thend:	I believe everything should be as In-Cavern as possible, if the 'story' is truly to take off (including liasons ) then Cyan/DRC must take an active role/interest, and I agree with Vort and ireen, etc,, We are the ones who bring Life to the Cavern
1687:	Yali:	I would
1688:	Butch:	Go ahead Yali.
1689:	Hitana:	this whole organization thing and so on is really important!
1690:	Kam Uraki:	I just wish the bahro would shut up
1691:	Hitana:	right thend
1692:	Hitana:	lol kam
1693:	tkwiggins:	Thanks for this meeting Butch. Really well thought-out questions.
1694:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	I hope the bahro never stop talking to us
1695:	Hitana:	yeah thats right
1696:	Yali:	I just wanted to voice my displeasute with GrayWolf's leave, and I would like to remind everyone to not take the game too seriously
1697:	amonre:	thanks for organising this, butch
1698:	Hitana claps her hands for butch
1699:	amonre claps his hands
1700:	Butch:	I will keep the floor open for statements for the next 3 minutes before I close round table.
1701:	weeKIly Reporter claps his hands
1702:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	thank you, Butch, it was very informative
1703:	ireenquench:	Yes, thats a lot Butch, even though I think we rambled a lot and didnt always answer your questions, sorry, it was mostly massive hive mind brain storming lol
1704:	LegWer:	Butch! One think of. a lot in here do not use english as native and having problem withe speed at this events
1705:	jimmyleg:	thanks, butch
1706:	Migo applaudes the Reporter...
1707:	Hitana cheers for butch
1708:	Yali:	I have never gotten too distraught about Uru or the community because I've kept things in perspective
1709:	Thend:	I'd be interested in hearing from you Butch, how you thought this meeting went and what your overall intention was for it. And thanks a lot for holding this
1710:	Vortmax:	Hey, brainstorming has been great!
1711:	Vortmax:	I know I saw a lot of good ideas here.
1712:	Thend nods his head
1713:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	I did, too. And it's good to hear what other people think
1714:	Hitana nods her head
1715:	ireenquench goes whooooooooosh as she imagines all the lovely brains storming
1716:	jimmyleg:	we actually started to develop a bit of protocol
1717:	Hitana:	lol ireen
1718:	Migo:	very nice!!!
1719:	Thend:	early stages, yes
1720:	Butch:	Thre are 2 more mintues in open roundtable before I close, please make any statement you wish during this time.
1721:	Migo:	we are family.....
1722:	Hitana:	lol migo
1723:	jimmyleg:	butch, give a close?
1724:	Migo:	butch?
1725:	Yali:	What I really care about is the game, and so I try to ensure that I don't become too upset or i9nfluenced by things - to me it's all just about having fun
1726:	Butch:	Round table is closed.
1727:	Firesign:	excellent point yali
1728:	Migo claps for butch and his effort
1729:	amonre claps his hands
1730:	weeKIly Reporter:	Heh
1731:	Hitana claps her hands
1732:	Vortmax thanks you very much!
1733:	Butch:	Actions items:
1734:	sundog claps his hands
1735:	Thend:	If we lose the fun, we lose what makes Uru Uru
1736:	Hitana thanks you very much!
1737:	Butch:	Get the chatlog posted at DRCsite and MO:UL
1738:	weeKIly Reporter claps his hands
1739:	Ghaelen D'Lareh claps her hands
1740:	Hitana cheers
1741:	Migo cheers
1742:	ireenquench:	I think we need to keep in mind text communication is very hard... so we need to be gentle with each other in Cavern and on forums... and if we feel attacked... or somebody disagrees... its just a diff viewpoint and may not even be an attack.
1743:	amonre:	UO too, if you want
1744:	Thend claps his hands
1745:	Butch:	I will be posting raw and make an attempt to organize.
1746:	Hitana:	right ireen!
1747:	Migo:	that is good ireen
1748:	Hitana:	nice of you butch
1749:	Butch:	I would like to thank eveyone who showed up, I wasn't sure this was going to be me doing more than talking to cones.
1750:	Yali:	I think people can benefit from taking a step back and thinking about why they loveMyst and Uru instead of getting so involved in the realism of the game that they get carried away
1751:	Thend starts to laugh
1752:	Hitana:	lol
1753:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	lol
1754:	amonre starts to laugh
1755:	Nis'ah:	cones are good listeners
1756:	jimmyleg laughs
1757:	sundog:	well a request to the reporter here from KI letter to summarize it for the reading public
1758:	Kam Uraki:	Obviously we have no lives either Butch
1759:	Whalyn:	I'm glad you gave us something to listen to, Butch.
1760:	Butch:	I also want to thank everyone for sticking though this experimental style.
1761:	Vortmax:	Well, Butch, you've done very well. I'm quite pleased with how things have gone
1762:	weeKIly Reporter:	Oh no sundog are you starting a newsletter too?
1763:	ireenquench:	it was cool, Butch, very wild
1764:	Vortmax:	You've done something.
1765:	Butch:	Hoepfully the next meeting doens't feel so . . I don't even know how to describe it.
1766:	Migo:	you felt the need, and obviously so did we Butch, thank you for the initiative,
1767:	amonre:	the chat log scrolled terribly fast at times though
1768:	LegWer:	The most fun in this URU is to help outhers to get help your self
1769:	sundog:	no but fully support your efforts if ud like a hand
1770:	Thend nods his head
1771:	Hitana nods her head
1772:	amonre nods his head
1773:	tkwiggins:	I think this was an excellent format Butch.
1774:	amonre:	oh, damn... dinner's just about to start
1775:	Butch:	With that, this meeting is closed, please feel free to use the hood as you see fit.
1776:	Migo:	yup
1777:	Hitana:	keep that goin man!
1778:	Vortmax cheers
1779:	amonre waves
1780:	Migo cheers
1781:	Kam Uraki:	Well, for me the fun is doing machinima with it, but hey to each his own
1782:	Ghaelen D'Lareh claps her hands
1783:	Jinglish:	Congrats!
1784:	RayRay claps his hands
1785:	Thend:	These views needed to be aired, and In-Cavern
1786:	pirschen43 claps his hands
1787:	Yali:	Oh no, was this supposed to be IC?
1788:	Migo claps her hands
1789:	Hitana cheers
1790:	Vortmax:	I've gotta run to another meeting, but I'll see you all later. And thanks to everyone who showed up!
1791:	weeKIly Reporter:	Ok thanks then sundog : /
1792:	Butch:	No yali, It was neutral
1793:	Hitana:	bye vort
1794:	Yali:	ok great!
1795:	Thend:	Seeya Vorto
1796:	Migo:	LUNCH,
1797:	Kestr'l:	I just walked in, unfortunately Could anyone PM me with a summary?
1798:	Migo passes out the snacks
1799:	Thend:	I just spoke, dunno where I was when I was doing it lol
1800:	Nis'ah:	everyone have a great weekend
1801:	Thend:	Kestryl, it was just a discussion of organization, community, freedom, and respect in the Cavern
1802:	Migo:	brb, someone man the coffee stand for a sec?,
1803:	Kestr'l:	I guess I'll wait for the logs to come out
1804:	Junee:	red hair!
1805:	Ghaelen D'Lareh:	lol
1806:	Thend:	Or, you could ask around some more Kestrl

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HTMLised Transcript of 2007 Jan 13 Meeting

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